Giving notice in but holidays booked already

hatsepsovet

I've just found out that I managed to get a new job and I've accepted their offer. They want me to start straight away but I'd like to give a 1 month notice at my current job. I say I would like to as I don't actually have a written contract with them (they "don't do contracts" in their own words) but it's a very small company and I don't want to cause them too much stress. I'm not sure how the law works but I am under impression that I only have to give them 1 week if I wanted to as I don't have a contract - is this correct? I will have worked for them for 2 years by the end of next month and I get paid monthly if this makes any difference.

Now the thing is that I have already booked a holiday for last 2 weeks in November and if I was to give my notice in on Monday, 6th Nov that would mean I would only work for 2 weeks and then be on holiday for the last 2 weeks of my notice. Am I allowed to do that? Can they officially make me come to work? What I'm worried about is that if I was to cancel my holiday they would try to avoid paying me for the holiday days still outstanding (which is approximately 12 days so it's quite a lot of money which I don't want to loose). In the worst case scenario I could start in the new company straight away so I wouldn't loose money but nevertheless I just want to get what I'm entitled to.
I'd appreciate any of your thoughts...

Miss_Money

hatsepsovet wrote:

I've just found out that I managed to get a new job and I've accepted their offer. They want me to start straight away but I'd like to give a 1 month notice at my current job. I say I would like to as I don't actually have a written contract with them (they "don't do contracts" in their own words) but it's a very small company and I don't want to cause them too much stress. I'm not sure how the law works but I am under impression that I only have to give them 1 week if I wanted to as I don't have a contract - is this correct? I will have worked for them for 2 years by the end of next month and I get paid monthly if this makes any difference.

Now the thing is that I have already booked a holiday for last 2 weeks in November and if I was to give my notice in on Monday, 6th Nov that would mean I would only work for 2 weeks and then be on holiday for the last 2 weeks of my notice. Am I allowed to do that? Can they officially make me come to work? What I'm worried about is that if I was to cancel my holiday they would try to avoid paying me for the holiday days still outstanding (which is approximately 12 days so it's quite a lot of money which I don't want to loose). In the worst case scenario I could start in the new company straight away so I wouldn't loose money but nevertheless I just want to get what I'm entitled to.
I'd appreciate any of your thoughts...

right 1st off your company doesnt do contracts?! thats so you dont have a leg to stand on when they want to give you the push change your pay etc. :mad:
As you dont have a contract i would say that you could walk out whenever you wished! as theres nothing to stop you from doing so. They are making up the terms and conditions of your employment as they go along (because you dont have a contract!) My advice leave when you fell is best they cant MAKE you go into work and then get a job where you do have a contract!:T
The very best of luch MMM xx

CFC

Your understanding of the situation is incorrect, Miss Moneypenny. The contract is made as soon as you accept a job offer, and both sides are then bound by its terms until it is ended or varied. There is a contract of employment even if it has not been supplied in written form, however, the employee has a right to request a contract in writing.

All employees, regardless of the number of hours they work per week, are entitled to receive a written statement from their employer within two months of starting work. The statement should describe the main terms of the contract of employment.

An employee who wants a written statement may request one verbally or in writing.

The written statement must include by law:-

the names of you and your employer
the date you started work
the amount of pay and how often you will be paid, for example, weekly or monthly
the hours of work
your holiday entitlement, including how many days off you are entitled to and what your holiday pay will be, if any
how much notice you are entitled to if you are dismissed and how much warning you must give the employer if you want to leave the job
the title of the job
where the job is based, for example, whether you will have to work in more than one location
what the disciplinary, dismissal and grievance procedures are in the workplace
what sick pay you are entitled to
whether you can join the employer’s occupational pension scheme, if there is one.

The above information does not have to be included in the written statement of terms and conditions. It can be given in, for example, a staff handbook which all the employees can have access to.

You do certain statutory rights which will override anything in a contract of employment.

You will have an illegal contract of employment (and probably not have a written contract given to you even if you ask for it!!!) if:-


you get all or part of your wages paid cash in hand; and
tax and national insurance contributions are not paid on the wages when they should have been; and
you knew you were being paid in this way to avoid paying tax and/or national insurance contributions.

A contract will also be illegal if it is for an immoral or illegal act.

Assuming you're not covered by the above exceptions, if your employer tries to withhold your holiday pay just mention ACAS and CAB as your next step. It usually doesn't go any furhter, because employers are aware of your employment rights.

A big BUT here - say your holiday year of 25 days allowance starts on August 1st, and you accrue 2 days a month, and you've booked 2 weeks off in November - if you hand in your notice and leave at the end of November, not all of your holiday will be covered by pay, because you have only accrued 2 days for August, 2 days for September, 2 days for October and 2 days for November. That would only be 8 days holiday pay earned so far, so your last 2 days of holiday would not be paid.

The absolute minimum notice period you must give is a week, you are correct, Hatsep. However your contract may mean you have to give a month.

The notice period for employer and employee is usually the same, so base your notice on how much they would have to give you (if you've ever had the conversation). Another rule of thumb is how you are paid, if weekly then a week, monthly a month. Neither of these are cast iron, though.
Hope some of that helps.

hatsepsovet

CFC,
Thanks for that really informative answer.
I think when I''ll give my notice in on Monday they will want me to work the 2 weeks instead of going on holiday (I'm not going away; I just needed to use up my holiday allowance).
I don't mind doing that but I'm concerned that my company will not pay me for the holidays not taken in my final pay packet.
The holiday year in this company begins in January. I am entitled to 28 days holiday (that's 25 days + 3 days for christmas). Upto now I have only taken 13 1/2 days so I have loads of holiday left. (I didn't use up the holiday earlier this year as I was on maternity leave and my employer wouldn't allow me to take holiday before the maternity leave started as they told me I didn't have enough days.)
Are they leagally obliged to pay me for the holiday days not taken? If they are not, they will most certainly try to avoid paying me and in that case I'd just rather give them 2 weeks notice and not work the 2 weeks I was supposed to be on holiday - my new employer wants me start ASAP so I would have money coming in straight away.
I'd really appreciate any advice on the above.

liney

Yes they are legally obliged to pay you outstanding holidays in your final pay packet, and on the same note could deduct holidays taken but not technically accrued yet.

And before they even suggest that you don't...... Yes you accrue holidays when on maternity leave.

CFC

Hi Hatsep, you have got 9.41 days left if you work until the last day in November, in that case. You don't actually have 10 days (or two weeks) left in your holiday bank. That's if they count Xmas holidays as a given gift at Xmas and your standard allowance is 25 days.

If the 3 days at Christmas is part of your standard allowance but they make you keep it for then, then you have 12.16 days hols left, again that is assuming you work till the last day in November, and that will cover your 10 days hols.

And liney is correct, employers are legally obliged to pay out on accrued holiday pay which has not been taken, when an employee leaves.