"Loss of Earnings"

MemmaJ

The back-story to this is quite a long one, but I tend to waffle (as I want to get all the points in!) and have previously been criticised for my first post being too long, haha!

So what I basically want to know is, wether a company can take THEIR 'loss of earnings' out of an employee's wages, for the days that the employee was on a course that THEY sent him on?

My partner left a job almost a month ago, to go to a new job. He knew that he would have to pay back 80% of the Course Fee, as the full amount was repayable if he left within a year, and then less-20% each year thereafter.
We worked out that he would be owed around 350 pounds from his old company, after 80% of the Course Fee had been deducted (480 pounds) - and so he put this in writing to them (also explaining how we'd worked it out)

They wrote back to him saying that they owe him 9.15(!), because as well as the 480 pounds for the course fee, they have also deducted around 300 pounds for 'loss of earnings'?!

Any advice or knowledge on this matter would be gratefully recieved, as they're being less than helpful themselves...

Thanks
(and apologies for the fact I have no Pounds sign on my laptop!)

Tiddlywinks

When did he attend the course?

When did he resign?

When exactly did he leave?

anamenottaken

Sounds as though they are trying it on. Look at the agreement which was signed by your partner.

Did he resign and work his full notice period?

Did he take more than his accrued entitlement to holiday earlier this year?

Emmzi

no, they are talking rubbish. Was it in the contract as something they can deduct for? Won't be, so that'll be unlawful deduction I *hink*.

Also a 5 year tie in period for a £600 course to me seems totally unreasonable - I am not aware of any clawbacks having stood up in court as it's an unreasonable condition - 5 year tie in for £50k of education - maybe! However having offered to pay it back I don't know what you'd do with that now.

MemmaJ

He attended the course in October 2009, and handed in his resignation at the very beginning of November this year.

He only gave one week's notice following discussion's with ACAS. Basically he was head-hunted for a much better job, with much better salary, and where he wouldn't have to be On-Call every other weekend. But they needed him to start ASAP and weren't prepared to wait 4 weeks.
He had wanted to leave his previous job for a LONG time because his boss was a nightmare, but never felt able to as he has no formal qualifications and so didn't think he'd be able to gain employment anywhere else in the trade. So when he was offered this new job on a plate, his jumped at it.
He never recieved a copy of his employment contract which was signed in March 2009, from his old employer (despite repeatedly asking for it, for over a year). What was stated in that contract had been changed - and in some cases, breached - by the company themselves since it was signed, with no new contract drawn up (e.g: the on-call system, his working hours, etc). S o ACAS told him that because of this, and because he has never been given a copy, the contract was basically not valid and therefore he was only required to give them the statutory minimum of 1 week's notice (something that we'd also already seen ourselves online here: http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?r.s=sc&r.l4=1074038949&r.l1=1073858787&r.lc=en&r.l3=1084822756&r.l2=1073858914&type=RESOURCES&itemId=1073792628 )

Holiday entitlement: No, he had 4 days Holiday outstanding at the time he left.

As for looking at the agreement that was signed... Again, he has never been given a copy, despite asking for one (can you see the theme here?!). The company have also never given him his Certificate for the Course/Qualification, but that's another story....
When he spoke to his old Manager yesterday to try and get some clarification about it, he mumbled something over the phone as if he was 'reading' it from the agreement - but when my partner said "OK I want a copy of that", he started backtracking and saying things like "I'll have to ask the Director"... (We do know that he's perfectly entitled to have a copy, so we'll get one by whatever means!).

Sorry, I hope I'm not making this confusing...!

MemmaJ

Emmzi wrote: »

However having offered to pay it back I don't know what you'd do with that now.

He remembers it being stated in the agreement that he signed - so we knew he would have to pay it back and there was no getting out of it. Unfortunately I wasn't with him at that time, or I'd have had something to say about it!
He doesn't remember this 'loss of earnings' business being in the agreement, which is why we want to gain a copy (although it may well have beem - he tends to not actually LOOK at what he's signing!)

Tiddlywinks

Is it worth the fight?

This sort of dispute could run and run.... maybe you might consider putting it down to experience. I know that you might feel you have been unjustly treated BUT sometimes it's just better for your quality of life to rise above it.

MemmaJ

It probably isn't worth the fight to most people, but it's now become about the principle of it. He was treated terribly by his boss for the last 2-3 years, and his working life was miserable - but amidst threats like "if you don't like it, I'll just lay you off', he had to just get on with it.

Now he's got this fantastic opportunity and is really happy in his new job, but this is like the final kick in the teeth from his old boss. It's actually made ME more angry than him, and I don't really want to let his old boss get away with it.
It's not an awful lot of money for some people, but in the run-up to Xmas and my twins' birthday, 300 pounds is a lot to us!

The thing that HE'S most annoyed about is that they still haven't given him his P45. He keeps asking for it and they just keep saying that they "haven't had a chance to do it yet"

So right to the end, he/she is being difficult about everything (it's a husband and wife running the company), and it's now about the principle as well as the money

Tiddlywinks

MemmaJ wrote: »

It probably isn't worth the fight to most people, but it's now become about the principle of it. He was treated terribly by his boss for the last 2-3 years, and his working life was miserable - but amidst threats like "if you don't like it, I'll just lay you off', he had to just get on with it.

.................

and it's now about the principle as well as the money

Your OH was miserable but now has a chance for a fresh start - why keep looking back and focusing on the negative stuff? Does he feel as strongly about this as you do?

Good luck in sorting this out...... it could take months. Once these things become personal there is rarely a clear 'winner'.

MemmaJ

He does now, yes. Before they started to get funny about things, he was quite happy to just drop everything with them, as long as he got his P45.
But the fact that they wont even give him that, has made him want to see it through.

Emmzi

I usually go for "let it go" but in this case where OH has a new jib and a fight won't distract him from finding one, and former employer do seem to be especially arsey, I cannot see what you have to lose except a few stamps.