It's Bloody Cold Here - Is Global Warming All Over?

andykn

prosaver wrote: »

Personally if I were the preposterous Lord Marland I’d choose the Unicorn plan over the “Green job” fantasy. It has considerably greater a chance of coming off. :T

I'm not entirely sure what your point is? Are you suggesting that the UK's current generating capacity is adequate in terms of amount and projected lifespan? That no new generating capacity is required in the next few decades? We can carry on with what we've got and not spend anything?

Kohoutek

Whether global warming is real or not is immaterial, we're running out of energy in the UK, hence we need new sources of energy:

Coal production at levels lower than the 1830s...



Oil production at 1978 levels...



Gas production at 1994 levels...

ILW

Kohoutek wrote: »

Whether global warming is real or not is immaterial, we're running out of energy in the UK, hence we need new sources of energy:

Coal production at levels lower than the 1830s...



Oil production at 1978 levels...



Gas production at 1994 levels...

As a country we have enough coal to last many decades, but due to the green lobby we are not using it. Mining could produce many jobs and make us very nearly self sufficient in energy for power stations.

Kohoutek

ILW wrote: »

As a country we have enough coal to last many decades, but due to the green lobby we are not using it. Mining could produce many jobs and make us very nearly self sufficient in energy for power stations.

The idea the UK has decades (or centuries) of coal just waiting to be mined is a complete myth I'm afraid, although its very widely held.

In 1980, the UK claimed "proved recoverable reserves" of 45bn tonnes to the World Energy Council (WEC). This figure has been continually revised downwards to only 0.22bn tonnes in the WEC's last report.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/mar/05/fossilfuels.mining

In Great Britain there is in excess of 400 million tonnes of proven coal reserves indentified, which at present extraction rates [which are already insufficient to meet domestic coal demand, i.e. we are no-where near self-sufficient] would last approx. 20 years.

http://www.ukcoal.com/coal-around-the-world

This is coal reserves - i.e. how much coal there is that can be extracted using today's technology at more or less today's prices. In terms of resources (total amount of coal in the ground) there is still a reasonable amount, but extracting that coal might not be much cheaper than the cost of alternative forms of energy.

ILW

Kohoutek wrote: »

The idea the UK has decades (or centuries) of coal just waiting to be mined is a complete myth I'm afraid, although its very widely held.





http://www.ukcoal.com/coal-around-the-world

This is coal reserves - i.e. how much coal there is that can be extracted using today's technology at more or less today's prices. In terms of resources (total amount of coal in the ground) there is still a reasonable amount, but extracting that coal might not be much cheaper than the cost of alternative forms of energy.

I think that refers to economically retrieval coal, as prices of alternative such as oil and gas rise, more of the coal becomes viable. It is not a clean fuel though which can make it more expensive to use purely down to CO2 directives and targets.

Kohoutek

ILW wrote: »

I think that refers to economically retrieval coal, as prices of alternative such as oil and gas rise, more of the coal becomes viable. It is not a clean fuel though which can make it more expensive to use purely down to CO2 directives and targets.

Only a small amount becomes viable with higher prices and investment. According to the Coal Authority:

Currently at UK Coal deep mines the reserves plus resources total 86 mt which without investments would see exhaustion at all pits between 2014-2020 depending how much resource could be converted into reserve and worked.

With investment, which would allow the potential resources to be worked, the total increases by 159 mt and production should be maintained at around 10 mt to 2020 reducing to the point of exhaustion around 2035. (This again assumes all pits continue in production until exhaustion.)

http://www.coal.gov.uk/media/860AD/Response%20to%20Energy%20Review%20-%20Appendix%202.pdf

StevieJ

Kohoutek wrote: »

Whether global warming is real or not is immaterial, we're running out of energy in the UK, hence we need new sources of energy:

Coal production at levels lower than the 1830s...



Oil production at 1978 levels...



Gas production at 1994 levels...

Wasn't helped by the 80's decimation of the coal mining sector.

ILW

StevieJ wrote: »

Wasn't helped by the 80's decimation of the coal mining sector.

There was loads of relatively cheap gas and oil around then.