RPI to CPI Early Day Motion 1032

Pugliese

I subscribe to this thread so get regular updates. I cannot help feel that you are not reaching a big enough audience. Has anyone raised this with 38 Degrees as a Campaign http://www.38degrees.org.uk ? Had a quick look and could see no reference.

quinnect

I don't know if people are aware of this but there appears to be a move ny the ONS to fiddle RPI to bring it down> The excuse is that when it comes to assessing clothing and footwear something called the Carli formula is used and it is claimed this has been artificially raising RPI for years. I am very suspicious because the previous government argument, used for a long time, was that CPI is lower than RPI because the latter does not take account of people substituting downwards and the use of geometric mean in CPI means it can approximate substitution. The substitution argument is nonsense for a number of reasons and it brings shame on the Court of Appeal that they swallowed this government nonsense. It is odd than that the substitution argument is being sidelinedin favour of a new fiddle to reduce RPI. There appears to be no limit to the mendacity of this government and, sad to say, the ONS.

Andy_L

If the use of the Carli formula has been artifically raising RPI then changing it is not a fiddle but simply the statistically right thing to do

viridens

My last post concerned U.S. changes to disguise true inflation by fiddling their CPI formula.

I had assumed that the fiddling with the UK CPI formula made it clear the same thing was going on here. I am disturbed to find it is worse than that. There are also proposals to reduce the RPI/CPI gap by changing the RPI formula.
Stand by to be short-changed yet again.

Quote:
"But the release of minutes from a meeting of the Consumer Prices Advisory Committee (CPAC) suggests that there is now the beginning of a new plan underway – to adjust the RPI formula to bring it in line with the CPI."

See the article and links here: http://www.moneyweek.com/blog/why-rpi-inflation-could-be-about-to-take-a-tumble-22300

ExBT_Bob

People are just not aware of the impacts of the RPI to CPI indexation change to their State and Public or Private Pensions:
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2190915/Less-aware-change-inflation-link-cut-pensions-25-cent.html

Ripoff_2

viridens wrote: »

My last post concerned U.S. changes to disguise true inflation by fiddling their CPI formula.

I had assumed that the fiddling with the UK CPI formula made it clear the same thing was going on here. I am disturbed to find it is worse than that. There are also proposals to reduce the RPI/CPI gap by changing the RPI formula.
Stand by to be short-changed yet again.


It's actually worse than that because the ONS are investigating the lack of housing costs in CPI and have worked on CPIH which according to them now includes housing costs, but comes out LOWER than even CPI.

Now I can't believe that, it should have come out somewhere between CPI and RPI by all accounts, hence it's yet another flawed measure.

You are right they are looking at lowering RPI down nearer to the flawed CPI it just beggers belief that they can get away with this blatant manipulation of the inflation measures to in effect lower them and thus reduce pensions and benefits year on year.

The States did this as you say and look what a mess their so called pensions & benefits system is now in, pensioners in the States are now really struggling, obvious wasn't it, now they can't afford to increase them properly, the politicians fooled themselves and are now the people are paying the price.

It WILL happen here to if WE allow this Gvmt to keep getting away with this THEFT.

WE need to keep plugging away at this and highlighting the consequences over and over again, make a noise and keep making a noise. Pensioners and the people in this country need to WAKE UP to this before our pensions are worthless!

This inflation fiddle erodes pensions over time on a massive scale!

RichandJ

Ripoff wrote: »

viridens wrote: »

My last post concerned U.S. changes to disguise true inflation by fiddling their CPI formula.

I had assumed that the fiddling with the UK CPI formula made it clear the same thing was going on here. I am disturbed to find it is worse than that. There are also proposals to reduce the RPI/CPI gap by changing the RPI formula.
Stand by to be short-changed yet again.


It's actually worse than that because the ONS are investigating the lack of housing costs in CPI and have worked on CPIH which according to them now includes housing costs, but comes out LOWER than even CPI.

Now I can't believe that, it should have come out somewhere between CPI and RPI by all accounts, hence it's yet another flawed measure.

You are right they are looking at lowering RPI down nearer to the flawed CPI it just beggers belief that they can get away with this blatant manipulation of the inflation measures to in effect lower them and thus reduce pensions and benefits year on year.

The States did this as you say and look what a mess their so called pensions & benefits system is now in, pensioners in the States are now really struggling, obvious wasn't it, now they can't afford to increase them properly, the politicians fooled themselves and are now the people are paying the price.

It WILL happen here to if WE allow this Gvmt to keep getting away with this THEFT.

WE need to keep plugging away at this and highlighting the consequences over and over again, make a noise and keep making a noise. Pensioners and the people in this country need to WAKE UP to this before our pensions are worthless!

This inflation fiddle erodes pensions over time on a massive scale!

Yawn. Whtever drivel you put on any internet forum will not get you RPI back, no matter how much leftie c rap you post.

Ripoff_2

RichandJ wrote: »

Ripoff wrote: »

Yawn. Whtever drivel you put on any internet forum will not get you RPI back, no matter how much leftie c rap you post.

RichardJ Just for your information, I am not a "Left ie" never have been. You are totally mistaken in your assertion and seem not to understand the issue at hand. This issue is about Right and Wrong, nothing to do with Left or Right. Breaking a contract, being lied to, being betrayed and worst of all being stolen from is and always will be totally and utterly wrong no matter which flavour of Government commits the act, Left or Right............its simply WRONG and needs putting RIGHT.

Ripoff_2

HI ALL,

Below is an update on the real effects of CPI indexing after just 3 years.

With a pension of £5k, £8, or £10k over that time you have lost £299, £478, £598 respectively.

For example an average £8k pension with RPI would now be worth £9,066 but with CPI it will only be worth £8,868 in April 2013 with a 2.2% CPI increase or put another way, a loss of £16.50 a month this year alone (2013) (diff RPI to CPI is £198 this year)


So, on an average £8k pension a loss of £478 over the 3 years and then a compounded loss year on year. IF you have a bigger pension then the loss is even greater!

MORE DETAILED INFO BELOW

Your pension in 2010 will now be worth in 2013 after the uprating at Sept CPI 2.2% (RPI was 2.6%) the following:

£20k pension with RPI would have been £22,666 but now after 3 yrs of CPI will be £22,167, diff of £496, actual loss over 3 years £1,196

£15k pension with RPI would have been £16,999 but now after 3 yrs of CPI will be £16,627, diff of £372, actual loss over 3 years £897


£10k pension with RPI would have been £11,333 but now after 3 yrs of CPI will be £11,085, diff of £248, actual loss over 3 years £598

£8k pension with RPI would have been £9,066 but now after 3 yrs of CPI will be £8,868, diff of £198, actual loss over 3 years £478

£5k pension with RPI would have been £5,666 but now after 3 yrs of CPI will be £5,542, diff of £124, actual loss over 3 years £299

If you had any doubts as to the effects of the RPI to CPI switch, then the evidence is in.


WE HAVE BEEN MUGGED!

Ripoff_2

All you may wish to see this, it is taken from the ONS and gives the inflation measures from 1997 to date for September uprating of pensions.

SEPTEMBERS INFLATION RATES
Year RPI CPI Variance
1997 3.6 1.8 1.8 Labour Gvmt
1998 3.2 1.4 1.8 Labour Gvmt
1999 1.1 1.2 -0.1 Labour Gvmt
2000 3.3 1.0 2.3 Labour Gvmt
2001 1.7 1.3 0.4 Labour Gvmt
2002 1.7 1.0 0.7 Labour Gvmt
2003 2.8 1.4 1.4 Labour Gvmt
2004 3.1 1.1 2 Labour Gvmt
2005 2.7 2.5 0.2 Labour Gvmt
2006 3.6 2.4 1.2 Labour Gvmt
2007 3.9 1.8 2.1 Labour Gvmt
2008 5.0 5.2 -0.2 Labour Gvmt
2009 -1.4 1.1 -2.5 Labour Gvmt
2010 4.6 3.1 1.5 Coalition Gvmt
2011 5.6 5.2 0.4 Coalition Gvmt
2012 2.6 2.2 0.4 Coalition Gvmt

2.9% 2.1% 0.8%
Average inflation Over 15 years