RPI to CPI Early Day Motion 1032

Ripoff_2

Online petition on pensions signed by more than 100,000 voters will NOT be debated by Parliament as no MP has taken up the cause.

Looks like the MP's don't care about the plight of pensioners anymore. Can I suggest that you take up your pen and write to your MP and ask them to support the e-petition and take up our cause.

The issue is the sixth-best supported on the e-petition system trumpeted by the Government as giving the public a voice in the House of Commons.

Yet another CONTRICK by this Gvmt, what voice do we have now! Just remember when it comes to the next election, you have a powerful voice then!

In a statement, the committee said: "The committee can consider any subject for debate, including those raised in e-petitions or national campaigns. "But an MP must go before the committee to make the case for their consideration."The pensions e-petition calls for the switch linking increases in pension payments to the Consumer Price Index (CPI) instead of the Retail Price Index
(RPI) measure of inflation to be reversed. RPI inflation tends to be faster-rising and includes housing costs not factored into the CPI. Trade unions and pensions groups are already appealing against a High Court ruling last month which rejected claims the move was unlawful.The committee chairman, Labour's Natascha Engel, criticised the Government's e-petition site for "misleading" voters over the impact they could make by collecting enough signatures. It hails e-petitions as "an easy way for you to influence Government policy" and states that any which collect 100,000-plus names "will be eligible for debate in the House of Commons".

NOT TRUE THEN, YET ANOTHER LIE BY THIS GOVERNMENT.

WE NEED TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT THIS!!!!!

Andy_L

Ripoff wrote: »

It hails e-petitions as "an easy way for you to influence Government policy" and states that any which collect 100,000-plus names "will be eligible for debate in the House of Commons".

NOT TRUE THEN, YET ANOTHER LIE BY THIS GOVERNMENT.

I see no lie.

the ePetitions system has always been a farce.

Goldwing1

Here's an interesting link. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/e-petitions-website-misleading-115053485.html

As with anything that comes out of Westminster, there's a con there somewhere. The trick is to spot it before anyone else.

Did they lie? No, of course not. They just didn't tell the whole truth!

viridens

106K votes and no debate? Absolutely outrageous.
It seems that my concerns over no MP stepping forward to champion this cause raised in earlier posts here were even more serious than I realised...
I assume that a debate is still possible if an MP does so?

But I also note the following quote from direct.gov e-petition FAQs:
Why do you say my e-petition ‘could’ be debated in the House of Commons?
If your e-petition reaches the 100,000 signatures, it is eligible for a debate in the House of Commons. However a debate may not be possible:

• if the subject of the e-petition is currently going through legal proceedings, it may be inappropriate for a debate to be held;

-Which I assume also applies at the moment.

As to writing to my MP, I do this regularly. But he's Jacob Rees-Mogg (42), the Boris Johnson of the South West, married to an 'heiress', and partner in an overseas investment company which pays him over £11,000 each month for 30hrs work (figures from theyworkforyou.com). So not much sypathy or empathy there for pensioners, as proven by his replies.

BUT I won't be giving up the fight just yet.

P.S. I note that it was this government which raised the number of e-petition votes required from 500 to 100K.

Quote:
As stated in Parliament by the Leader of the House of Commons, Sir George Young, on 2 December 2010, online petitions to the Coalition Government will be moving to DirectGov in 2011.
In line with the commitments in the Programme for Government published in May 2010, e-petitions that receive 100,000 signatures or more will be eligible for debate in Parliament.
Cabinet Office, Directgov and the Office of the Leader of the House of Commons are working together on the implementation of this system and further announcements will be made soon.
We continue to issue responses to petitions that had exceeded the 500-signature threshold as of 6 April 2010, when the e-petitions system was suspended ahead of the 2010 general election, and these can be viewed on the HMG e-petitions responses page.

And here is the relevant paragraph from the Programme for Government. Quote:
• We will ensure that any petition that secures 100,000 signatures will be eligible for formal
debate in Parliament. The petition with the most signatures will enable members of the
public to table a bill eligible to be voted on in Parliament.
& Interestingly, the next paragraph says:
• We will introduce a new ‘public reading stage’ for bills to give the public an opportunity
to comment on proposed legislation online, and a dedicated ‘public reading day’ within a
bill’s committee stage where those comments will be debated by the committee scrutinising the bill.
www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/.../dg_187876.pdf

Bass-man

An independent Report/White paper commissioned by AGE UK shows that people in later life spend their income in different proportions to the average citizen, This means that they have their own unique inflation which is substantially higher,
They have titled this the Silver RPI.. Well worth a read
[FONT=&quot](available to download from the AGE UK website)
Tried to include a link but disallowed.
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This amply demonstrates that CPI is totally inadequate for the purpose of protecting pensions against inflation; the index is in fact a European initiative created solely as a standard for comparison using common elements of cost within the European Union.
Increases to Council tax and Heating costs are not included in addition to mortgage and rent payments.Irrelevant items are included such as typical costs incurred by visitors to the UK????

People still in work can refuse the new conditions offered and even take industrial action if necessary. There is no similar option open for the existing pensioners who have had the injustice of their previous employer failing to fulfil the agreement which has been in place for many years. Not only are we an easy target but there is evidence that lower pensions will have the effect of killing off a no of us which may be part of the greater scheme!!

We could do with a modern day Jack Jones to Champion our cause.

Bass-man
Silver Pauper?

MEY_3

I think that unless your MP is a Labour one, a letter is just a waste of time. This is what Rachel Reeves wrote on 2 March 2011:-

I am very concerned about the Government's plans to use the Consumer Prices Index for the future indexation of pensions and many benefits.
If this is done on a permanent basis, the result will be a substantial loss to many people. As Shadow Minister for Pensions, alongside other Labour spokespeople, I have set out very clearly in the House of Commons our opposition to the policy of a permanent switch to CPI. I think a policy of a permanent switch to CPI is wrong, and I will continue to make this position clear as we seek to amend the Pensions Bill.
An Order debated in Parliament recently does not enforce this switch forever. It did, however switch uprating to CPI for one year. But the same order also includes a 4.6% increase in the Basic State Pension (£4.50 a week and £234 a year) - in line with RPI and above the rate of growth of CPI or earnings. I believe this is a significant gain for pensioners, especially the poorest pensioners who are more dependent on the BSP, and that is why the Labour Party did not vote against this particular Statutory Instrument.
I disagree with the Government that the change to CPI should be permanent, with its impact being felt even after the deficit is long gone. I have repeatedly questioned the Government on this and received no satisfactory answers. I believe this is an ideologically driven move from the Conservative Government to hit public sector workers, those on pensions and other benefits.
I have also asked the Royal Statistical Society for their view, and they highlighted that the CPI is not an appropriate measure for compensation, reflecting the fact that some pensioners and those on benefits have mortgages and also pay council tax, home insurance and other things excluded from the CPI.
I am working with Labour Party colleagues on this issue, and assure you that we will be opposing the measures to make this a permanent shift. I trust that this answers your specific questions about the RPI and CPI.

Rachel Reeves MP
Shadow Minister for Pensions

So, why not write to Rachel Reeves instead and ask her why no Labour MP has backed the call for a debate if they are so strongly opposed to this change. If we all do it maybe, we will at least find out if the Labour Party have officially changed their stance.

Her e-mail adress is readily availbale on the web. I hesitate to put it here in case she gets spammed.

Interested_Taxpayer

I fully agree MEY.
I posted my Labour MP's reply on this thread after I wrote to her suggesting she get in touch with her constituents who had expressed a concern about the RPI to CPI switch to get them to sign up to the e-petition. As well as doing this she said in her letter that she had signed the petition herself. I will write again to see where things stand. However before doing so, I can't find any source saying no MP has backed this e-petition and that it will not be debated?
The e-petition was put forward by a PCS member. The PCS has a Parliamentary Group of MPs who I am sure would support the petition. I therefore cannot understand why this has not happened.

viridens

Interested Taxpayer

Sky News covered this story. http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16151077

There are also a crop of 'e-petition website misleading' press and online articles at the moment following a Press Association release. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jD7WYst8DSRmX61tP0qQzCpWjdow?docId=N0000861326941642319A
No coincidence, I'm sure....

I share your sentiment regarding the PCS parliamentary group.

Ripoff_2

FYI. The Appeal will be heard some time in March I am led to believe

For anyone who is interested the e-petition debate, or lack of was on Sky News, 18 Jan: MPs Fail To Support Pensions E-Petition11:36pm UK, Tuesday January 17, 2012

You may also like to know the following: Jaguar Land Rover has restored the link to the Retail Prices Index for 1,000 of its pensioner members after union negotiations. http://m.professionalpensions.com/professional-pensions/news/2137864/jaguar-land-rover-restores-rpi-link good news for Ford workers.

Keep fighting it's nowhere near over yet, it never will be, we can't afford for it not to be. Unless they put this injustice and wrong, right. Together we can WIN, but we must keep this issue alive and kicking. Write to those MP's. They always want your vote at election time but when it really matters they seem to have deserted us, maybe they don't need your vote yet!, BUT THEY WILL and I am sure you will all think LONG and HARD before you place that important cross on the ballot paper.

Remember WE are the ones in POWER come election time and together we can make our votes count.

MEY_3

Re my post on this page: I have had a response from Rachel Reeves saying that Gregg McClymont MP is now Shadow Minister for Pensions, he taking over from her in October.