RPI to CPI Early Day Motion 1032

Ripoff_2

MEY wrote: »

I did e-mail Roger on 29 Nov 2010 , "Ripoff". Even offered to scan the relevant documents for him. I do understand that his organisation can only represent members but did ask him for an opinion, but no acknowledgement or reply as yet, hence my scepticism.

Sorry, I think he has had a few emails and yes it might be better to join. I don't believe it is too expensive. It's on the web site £15 for the year I think but please check. Might be worth checking your email spam folder as he may have replied and its gone there. I'll try and pass on your findings.

JamesU

JamesU wrote: »

From what I have heard so far, the government is not going as far as to introduce legislation allowing for exisiting final salary schemes linked to RPI to be automatically changed to CPI unless there is specific provision for this within the original pension documentation? If so, this would seem a significant u-turn on the plans previously suggested.

Update from what I have read. The government does not propose to introduce legislation that would directly override the rules of occupational schemes without consent of trustees or employers. The Governement believes this would:.........4 reasons given.....

See section 33-34 on pages 13-14 in link here to consultation paper:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/cpi-private-pensions-consultation.pdf

But this refers to private pensions. Anybody any idea if the same rules are therefore going to be applied to public sector pensions?

JamesU

hugheskevi

But this refers to private pensions. Anybody any idea if the same rules are therefore going to be applied to public sector pensions?

All public sector schemes will move to CPI for both revaluation and indexation due to different legislation. Public sector pensions changes are implemented via the annual uprating order, as the indexation of public sector schemes is linked to the uprating of State Second Pension.

chris_m

hugheskevi wrote: »

All public sector schemes will move to CPI for both revaluation and indexation due to different legislation. Public sector pensions changes are implemented via the annual uprating order, as the indexation of public sector schemes is linked to the uprating of State Second Pension.

Likewise any private sector schemes that also have to implement changes according to the annual uprating order - eg BT Section A/B and, possibly, some of the other ex-nationalised companies.

Old_Slaphead

Ripoff wrote: »

Don't be so keen to gloat Old Slaphead because it's not over yet, this is just the beginning, the war has only just begun.

I'm not gloating - both myself & my partner will be negatively affected by this change.

What I do think is that final salary schemes are extremely generous and will ultimately be funded by the lower paid both in the form of job losses (ie. in public sector) and higher taxation.

The main losers will be those on very good pensions and those who've benefitted from a low retirement age ie most "public servants" - the effect of those with modest pensions will be negligible.

You may have heard of the term "pension apartheid" - until we are all treated equally & fairly, which is definitely not the case at the moment, then I will be very much for the change (even at some personal cost).

FWIW I don't think many public sector workers voted for the present government and many of these will be in the private sector come 2015.

As regards you threat of war - don't forget the 10+ years Equitable Life pensioners have been battling to receive only a fraction of what they lost through government ineptitude.

Prof_as_was

Ripoff wrote: »

Don't be so keen to gloat Old Slaphead because it's not over yet, this is just the beginning, the war has only just begun.

Remember there are 330,000 BT pensioners, plus the other Private Companies like BT who are going to be hit by this and then of course the public sector pensioners. All these pensioners will be very angry about this and remember they all have the vote. I am sure they will use that vote very wisely in any local or national election.

Of course they may even be forced now to join the students, old and young together!

Certainly we should be encouraged by this wobble. An already weak, muddled moral and political position is further undermined by a first recognition of legal weakness in the original proposal (I assume that's what's behind the retreat). Members of schemes in current payment or in subscription (in BT and the like, and in the public sector) already have contracts, either documented or established by practice and implication, as a potentially very strong case. Now they also now have emergent discrimination, unsustainable and unreasoned abuse-of-power distinctions between contracts, to add to rightful enjoyment of property. Redoubled efforts are in order, a new round of letters called for. Instruct and embolden Parliamentary opposition (including 'troubled' L-Ds). Impress on Govt supporters that in these strapped times nobody wants to see tax-payers money wasted on defence counsel in Strasbourg on a case that's just been as good as conceded. Impress on them all that we do and will vote.

Prof_as_was

Re Slaphead: "will ultimately be funded by the lower paid both in the form of job losses (ie. in public sector) and higher taxation".

zzzzz......higher tax doesn't need to fall on the lower paid....zzzzzzzzz

Re "very good pensions .......ie most "public servants"

zzz....average public sector oocupational pension £8,320 (DWP) ....zzzz

Re: "don't think many public sector workers voted for the present government"

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

:rotfl:

Ripoff_2

JamesU wrote: »

Update from what I have read. The government does not propose to introduce legislation that would directly override the rules of occupational schemes without consent of trustees or employers. The Governement believes this would:.........4 reasons given.....

See section 33-34 on pages 13-14 in link here to consultation paper:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/cpi-private-pensions-consultation.pdf

But this refers to private pensions. Anybody any idea if the same rules are therefore going to be applied to public sector pensions?

JamesU

Thanks for this, these rules will not be applied to the public sector as far as I am aware, but it may strengthen the argument for pensions in payment. Need to read this yet though.

Old_Slaphead

Prof_as_was wrote: »

Re Slaphead: "will ultimately be funded by the lower paid both in the form of job losses (ie. in public sector) and higher taxation".

zzzzz......higher tax doesn't need to fall on the lower paid....zzzzzzzzz

Re "very good pensions .......ie most "public servants"

zzz....average public sector oocupational pension £8,320 (DWP) ....zzzz

Re: "don't think many public sector workers voted for the present government"

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

:rotfl:

Illuminating post (not) Prof - try offering constructive comments next time and BTW if you're going to quote me please do it accurately and don't edit parts out.

Prof_as_was

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

FWIW I don't think many public sector workers voted for the present government and many of these will be in the private sector come 2015..

[FONT=&quot]BBC news website 9 Dec 2010[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Defence firm BAE Systems has said it is planning to shed almost 1,400 jobs - mainly as a result of cutbacks made in the government's Spending Review.[/FONT]