can you see a day when people can walk away from a mortgage!?

ILW

Generali wrote: »

That's a very interesting point IMO. I lived in Paris for a while in a street called Rue des Petites Ecuries [Road of the little stables].

It was originally a road which had cheap stables for people that couldn't afford the toll to take their horse into Paris.

These days of course even fewer ride their horse into Paris yet they have become richer!

I guess the standard of living can be qualitative (am I having more fun?) or quantative (am I living longer?). It's up to you how you use those metrics.

When it is stated that the standard of living now is much higher than the 70s and 80s I just wonder how bad it would be if we returned to them levels.
The main improvements I see now seem to be:

We spend more time watching different forms of TV.
We are generally fatter.
We eat more but quite often worse food.
We mostly work longer hours to support our families.
More own houses, but that appears to be mainly down to RTB and there is a equal fall in social housing.
In general we have much higher levels of debt.

Am I missing something if I do not see the much improved standard of living that is forever being quoted.

Generali

ILW wrote: »

When it is stated that the standard of living now is much higher than the 70s and 80s I just wonder how bad it would be if we returned to them levels.
The main improvements I see now seem to be:

We spend more time watching different forms of TV.
We are generally fatter.
We eat more but quite often worse food.
We mostly work longer hours to support our families.
More own houses, but that appears to be mainly down to RTB and there is a equal fall in social housing.
In general we have much higher levels of debt.

Am I missing something if I do not see the much improved standard of living that is forever being quoted.

Child mortality rates are lower and life expectancy is higher for a start.

A 5 y/o car will generally start first time, that was hit and miss in the 1970s.

On the down side there is considerably less Led Zep and The Clash than was available in the 1970s and that is definitely a bad thing IMO.

de1amo

Point taken about my mails Generali, its just laziness and i do need to address it if people cant understand me!(thanks for the comment) All my working life i have had a secretary to do my typing, but she wont stretch to doing my personal meanderings when i am online! She is ill today so i am paralised and trying to batten down the hatches!

i live abroad in Turkey which isnt quite first world but booming at the moment. İt is a bit like living in the uk of my youth. İ have a step daughter who doesnt expect the world laid at her feet ie she gets small presents at appropriate times in return for working hard at school. Food is top notch and tastes real.
The price of housing is affordable and few people have mortgages. İts not everyones goal to own your own house and accept renting as a necessity.
People buy a car and it lasts til that car is deceased! there are mechanics who can fix your car or your hoover. Things dont get thrown away in a rush to get the latest gadget;not even by the young!
The average wage for white collar managers is 2500 of which about 1000 goes on rent and ther rest on living a comfortable life.
One difference that isnt considered a luxury is having a second holiday home--be it rented or owned, it can be afford and essential because of the summer heat and a need to send the family to the cooler air.
This life really hasnt altered over 40 years because my parents in law had the same when they were young.
Turkey is a competitor with a industrial and tourist base- the only burden they have is credit card debt but this has been well policed by the gov.

edit the income is in turkish lira--there is enough income to keep wifey at home with 2500tl --im greedy and send my wife out to work!! typical English!

ILW

Generali wrote: »

Child mortality rates are lower and life expectancy is higher for a start.

A 5 y/o car will generally start first time, that was hit and miss in the 1970s.

On the down side there is considerably less Led Zep and The Clash than was available in the 1970s and that is definitely a bad thing IMO.

Is that mainly down to advances in technology, rather than economic though?

It has been said the life expectancy may now be decreasing due to obesity issues.

StevieJ

Generali wrote: »

Child mortality rates are lower and life expectancy is higher for a start.

A 5 y/o car will generally start first time, that was hit and miss in the 1970s.

On the down side there is considerably less Led Zep and The Clash than was available in the 1970s and that is definitely a bad thing IMO.

If a new fridge freezer, TV or Video were required it was a serious dent in liquidity, and buying a new car would be like buying a house now :eek:

PasturesNew

ILW wrote: »

As someone who grew up in the 70s, I have trouble understanding the definition of standard of living being better now. We seem to have more gadgets now, but they are much cheaper due to the technology. I am not trying to argue any point but would be interested to know what the definition of standard of living is.

In the 70s we didn't have:
- central heating (had a coal fire)
- fitted carpets (had a strip of lino round the edges if wealthier, and a big mat in the middle)
- didn't have double glazing

Those are "things", but generally things are less "make do and mend", so your kettle nowadays is 3 years old and cost £5, rather than being 15 years old and cost £10.

Then there's "stuff": internet, 24 hour telly, more than 3 channels, digital cameras. So in the 70s you'd come home and be able to watch 3 channels of telly and if you were lucky enough to be able to afford a camera and film you could take photos of stuff at the weekend, then print them out to show your friends where you'd been. Now you rip bits of programme from digital TV, bung it on youtube, shove the link round your facebook mates, along with a link to the 200 digital snaps you took of your route from home to work you took this morning.

Holidays: we used to have 1-2 weeks in a leaking old caravan with a shed beside it with a chemical toilet. Now holidays in caravans have tellies and heating and a proper loo and a shower. We never used to wash on holiday - the caravan didn't have a bath/shower.

Loads of different things going on, which all add up, bit by bit, to a better lifestyle in general - if you can afford it all.

PasturesNew

de1amo wrote: »

Point taken about my mails Generali, its just laziness and i do need to address it if people cant understand me!(thanks for the comment) All my working life i have had a secretary to do my typing, but she wont stretch to doing my personal meanderings when i am online! She is ill today so i am paralised and trying to batten down the hatches!

Get Windows 7, built-in speech to text software. Speak to your PC and it'll type things

ILW

PasturesNew wrote: »

In the 70s we didn't have:
- central heating (had a coal fire)
- fitted carpets (had a strip of lino round the edges if wealthier, and a big mat in the middle)
- didn't have double glazing

Those are "things", but generally things are less "make do and mend", so your kettle nowadays is 3 years old and cost £5, rather than being 15 years old and cost £10.

Then there's "stuff": internet, 24 hour telly, more than 3 channels, digital cameras. So in the 70s you'd come home and be able to watch 3 channels of telly and if you were lucky enough to be able to afford a camera and film you could take photos of stuff at the weekend, then print them out to show your friends where you'd been. Now you rip bits of programme from digital TV, bung it on youtube, shove the link round your facebook mates, along with a link to the 200 digital snaps you took of your route from home to work you took this morning.

Holidays: we used to have 1-2 weeks in a leaking old caravan with a shed beside it with a chemical toilet. Now holidays in caravans have tellies and heating and a proper loo and a shower. We never used to wash on holiday - the caravan didn't have a bath/shower.

Loads of different things going on, which all add up, bit by bit, to a better lifestyle in general - if you can afford it all.

So is the official definition of standard of living, how much stuff you have?

silvercar

lemonjelly wrote: »

If you're going bankrupt, to be honest the simple plan, is stop paying the mortgage. Your home is an asset that the official reciever will have to deal with, & ultimately will be sold to pay off creditors. No point spending money on a house you're never going to own, as you won't be discharged still owning it.

The OR, whilst dealing with your affairs will select a time to sell the property. I can honestly say I've seen cases where this has taken 2-3 years (a colleague has a case at the mo where we are suprised that the OR still hasn't sold the property 3 years after the bankruptcy order). To be honest, may as well live rent free for that time & use your funds to clear other creditors.

If there is no equity or negative equity, the bankrupts family can buy back the beneficial interest for peanuts. The bankrupt then gets to keep his home and is rid of all the unsecured debts. So the advice in the last sentence is the opposite of the correct path, keep paying your mortgage and dump the unsecured debts as they will be included in bankruptcy.

Loughton_Monkey

ILW wrote: »

So is the official definition of standard of living, how much stuff you have?

More like how much stuff you can afford. I could by a horse for Mrs Loughton Monkey. But I couldn't really afford it, so I don't!