Is Obama a Keynsian?

FTBFun

A._Badger wrote: »

Well done. Half of those are true. That's a pretty good score for such burning certainty.

Which ones are false? As Cleaver seemed to be on the money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Sarah_Palin

(Yes I know its wikipedia, but assertions are backed up - at least on those 4 points above)

A._Badger

FTBFun wrote: »

Which ones are false? As Cleaver seemed to be on the money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Sarah_Palin

(Yes I know its wikipedia, but assertions are backed up - at least on those 4 points above)

It's misleading to suggest Palin believes 'creationism should be taught in school' as the implication (particularly to British minds) is that only creationism should be taught. What Palin appears to have said is that she has no objections to it being taught alongside Darwinian evolution.

It's hard to see what the problem could be with this. Presumably objectors wouldn't feel so aggrieved if both the Marxist and traditional theories of history were taught side by side, so that students could make up their own minds?

It's worth bearing in mind that Palin's father was a high school science teacher. She wasn't raised by the Taliban.

As for abortion, Plain has said she supports it in cases where the mother's life is threatened, but believes it is a states' issue, not a federal one (that's a hugely important distinction in the USA).

Perhaps most significantly, her views are pretty much in line with the mainstream centre Right in the USA, as reflected in polls.

It wouldn't surprise me if they chimed with those of many conservatives here, too.

I have no particularly brief for her, as I have said. But I do believe in fair play.

Cleaver

A._Badger wrote: »

Which was precisely my point. Like old Cleaver down below, some people seem to get their information about Sarah Palin where they once got it about George Bush - from the collective wisdom based on 'jokes'
told on The News Quiz.

I've no particular brief for la Palin - but I do have for informed opinions over groupthink.

Yes, I subscribe to 'groupthink'. Ye Gods.

Look, I don't care if people like Sarah Palin. And I'm no expert on the ins and outs of her policies. But I've seen and read enough about her to know that she isn't someone I would vote for or agree with that often. Is that okay, or am I still subscribing to 'groupthink'?

Cleaver

A._Badger wrote: »

It's misleading to suggest Palin believes 'creationism should be taught in school' as the implication (particularly to British minds) is that only creationism should be taught. What Palin appears to have said is that she has no objections to it being taught alongside Darwinian evolution.

I never said that she said only creationism that should be taught in schools, I just said that she thought that creationism should be taught in schools. I then said that I didn't think it should be.

Cleaver

Cleaver wrote: »

I know you weren't asking me, but I can't find many of Sarah Pailin's views or policies that I personally agree with.

She's anti same-sex marriages (I'm not), pro-creationism being taught in schools (I disagree) anti-abortion even in the case of rape (I'm not), pro-dealth penalty (I'm not)... I could go on.

A._Badger wrote: »

Well done. Half of those are true. That's a pretty good score for such burning certainty.

Only half are true? Which two don't you think are true?

Quote on same-sex marriages:

Q: Let’s try to avoid nuance. Do you support gay marriage?
BIDEN: No. We do not support that. That is a decision to be able to be left to faiths.
PALIN: My answer is the same as his and it is that I do not.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Civil_Rights.htm


Quote on creationism:

Teach creationism alongside evolution in schools

Earlier this year, she told the Anchorage Daily News that schools should not fear teaching creationism alongside evolution. “Teach both. You know, don’t be afraid of information.... Healthy debate is so important and it’s so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both. And you know, I say this too as a daughter of a science teacher.”

Source: Boston Globe, “A valentine to evangelical base”, p. A12 Aug 30, 2008

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/sarah_palin_education.htm

Quote on abortion:

Q: Your stand on abortion?A: I’m pro-life. I’ll do all I can to see every baby is created with a future and potential. The legislature should do all it can to protect human life.
Source: Q&A with Newsmax.com’s Mike Coppock Aug 29, 2008

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Abortion.htm

I support adequate funding for a strong public safety presence in Alaska. Feeling safe in our communities is something we cannot accept any compromise on. This includes policing in all its forms, the court system, prosecutors and corrections. If the legislature passed a death penalty law, I would sign it. We have a right to know that someone who rapes and murders a child or kills an innocent person in a drive by shooting will never be able to do that again. Source: Campaign website, www.palinforgovernor.com, “Issues” Nov 7, 2006

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Crime.htm

So in what way am I presenting 'half of these as true'? As far as I can see, they are all true. Please don't think that for one minute I don't think she should somehow not hold these views, or that people shouldn't agree with her on these views. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' here, I was just saying that on these four issues (and many others) she has one view and I hold the opposite view. Which means, as a politician, I could never see myself voting for her or someone similar.

FTBFun

A._Badger wrote: »

It's misleading to suggest Palin believes 'creationism should be taught in school' as the implication (particularly to British minds) is that only creationism should be taught. What Palin appears to have said is that she has no objections to it being taught alongside Darwinian evolution.

Which I still don't agree with by they way. Creationism is not science.

It's hard to see what the problem could be with this. Presumably objectors wouldn't feel so aggrieved if both the Marxist and traditional theories of history were taught side by side, so that students could make up their own minds?

History is not really a theory is it? In any case, the "Marxist theory of history" isn't wrapped up in all ecompasing belief system.

As for abortion, Plain has said she supports it in cases where the mother's life is threatened, but believes it is a states' issue, not a federal one (that's a hugely important distinction in the USA).

Perhaps most significantly, her views are pretty much in line with the mainstream centre Right in the USA, as reflected in polls.

It wouldn't surprise me if they chimed with those of many conservatives here, too.

I have no particularly brief for her, as I have said. But I do believe in fair play.

Which is fair enough, and I know that abortion is a much bigger in the US than it is here (I can't remember a mainstream party in the UK campaiging for it to be stopped) - however it doesn't stop me or anyone else disagreeing with her on that particular point.

neverdespairgirl

A._Badger wrote: »

Out of interest, which of Sarah Palin's policies do you disagree with?

Apart from others mentioned, how about her sex education policy - "tell 'em to say no". Which worked sooooo well with her own daughter....

JP45

What concerns me about Sarah Palin is not so much her policies (not that I agree with them) as her competence and character, as evidenced in the following report from The Daily Dish:

On the eve of Palin's latest version of reality, the Dish offers a recap of all the demonstrable lies she has told in the public record. We reprint the list as a public service and invite readers to run the new "book" through exactly the same empirical wringer, so we can compile an up-to-date and comprehensive list of the fantasies, delusions, lies and non-facts that Palin is so pathologically and unalterably attached to. Remember: we are not including contested stories that we cannot prove definitively one way or another or the usual spin that politicians use, or even hypocrisy or shading of facts. We are merely including things she has said or written that can be definitively proven as untrue, by incontestable evidence in the public record.

After you have read these, ask yourself: what wouldn't Sarah Palin lie about if she felt she had to?

Palin lied when she said the dismissal of her public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, had nothing to do with his refusal to fire state trooper Mike Wooten; in fact, the Branchflower Report concluded that she repeatedly abused her power when dealing with both men.

Palin lied when she repeatedly claimed to have said, "Thanks, but no thanks" to the Bridge to Nowhere; in fact, she openly campaigned for the federal project when running for governor.

Palin lied when she denied that Wasilla's police chief and librarian had been fired; in fact, both were given letters of termination the previous day.

Palin lied when she wrote in the NYT that a comprehensive review by Alaska wildlife officials showed that polar bears were not endangered; in fact, email correspondence between those scientists showed the opposite.

Palin lied when she claimed in her convention speech that an oil gas pipeline "began" under her guidance; in fact, the pipeline was years from breaking ground, if at all.

Palin lied when she told Charlie Gibson that she does not pass judgment on gay people; in fact, she opposes all rights between gay spouses and belongs to a church that promotes conversion therapy.

Palin lied when she denied having said that humans do not contribute to climate change; in fact, she had previously proclaimed that human activity was not to blame.

Palin lied when she claimed that Alaska produces 20 percent of the country's domestic energy supply; in fact, the actual figures, based on any interpretation of her words, are much, much lower.

Palin lied when she told voters she improvised her convention speech when her teleprompter stopped working properly; in fact, all reports showed that the machine had functioned perfectly and that her speech had closely followed the script.

Palin lied when she recalled asking her daughters to vote on whether she should accept the VP offer; in fact, her story contradicts details given by her husband, the McCain campaign, and even Palin herself. (She later added another version.)

Palin lied when she claimed to have taken a voluntary pay cut as mayor; in fact, as councilmember she had voted against a raise for the mayor, but subsequent raises had taken effect by the time she was mayor.

Palin lied when she insisted that Wooten's divorce proceedings had caused his confidential records to become public; in fact, court officials confirmed they released no such records.

Palin lied when she suggested to Katie Couric that she was involved in trade missions with Russia; in fact, she has never even met with Russian officials.

Palin lied when she told Shimon Peres that the only flag in her office was the Israeli flag; in fact, she has several flags.

Palin lied when she claimed to have tried to divest government funds from Sudan; in fact, her administration openly opposed a bill that would have done just that.

Palin lied when she repeatedly claimed that troop levels in Iraq were back to pre-surge levels; in fact, even she acknowledged her "misstatements," though she refused to retract or apologize.

Palin lied when she insisted that the Branchflower Report "showed there was no unlawful or unethical activity on my part"; in fact, that report prominently stated, "Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act."

Palin lied when she claimed to have voiced concerns over Wooten fearing he would harm her family; in fact, she actually decreased her security detail during that period.

Palin lied when asked about the $150,000 worth of clothes provided by the RNC; in fact, solid reporting contradicted several parts of her statement.

Palin lied when she suggested that she had offered the media proof of her pregnancy with Trig to "correct the record"; in fact, no reports of her medical records were ever published; and the letter from her doctor testifying to her good health only emerged hours before polling ended on election day, even though there was nothing in it that couldn't have been released two months earlier.

Palin lied when she said that "reported" allegations of her banning Harry Potter as mayor was easily refutable because it had not even been written yet; in fact, the first book in that series was published in 1998 - two years into her first term - and such rumors were never reported by the media, only circulated as emails.

Palin lied when she denied having participated in a clothes audit with campaign laywers; in fact, the Washington Times later confirmed those details.

Palin lied when asked about Couric's question regarding her reading habits; in fact, Couric's words were not, "What do you read up there in Alaska?" or anything close to condescension.

Palin lied when she mischaracterized the "$1200 check" given to Alaskans as the permanent fund dividend check; in fact, that fund had yielded $2,069 per person, and she claimed otherwise to obscure the fact that Alaskans also received a $1200 rebate check from a windfall profits tax on oil companies - a tax widely criticized by Republicans.

Palin lied when she claimed to be unaware of a turkey being slaughtered behind her during a filmed interview; in fact, the cameraman said she had picked the spot herself, while the slaughter was underway.

Palin lied when she denied having rejected federal stimulus money; in fact, she continued to accept and reject the funds several times.

Palin lied when she claimed that legislative leaders had canceled a meeting with her to hold their own press conference; in fact, they only canceled it after being told she would not participate, and the purpose of the press conference was very different from the meeting's.

Palin lied when she announced on the news that she never holds closed-door meetings; in fact, she had just attended a closed-door meeting with the legislature earlier that day.

Palin lied when she said that former aide John Bitney's "amicable" departure was for "personal" reasons; in fact, Bitney said he was fired because of his relationship with the wife of Palin's friend, plus a Palin spokesperson later claimed "poor job performance" for his firing - without elaborating.

Palin lied when she said she kept her running injury a secret on the campaign trail; in fact, her bandaged hand was clearly visible in photographs and the story was widely talked about.

Palin lied when she claimed that Alaska has spent "millions of dollars" on litigation related to her ethics complaints; in fact, that figure is much, much lower, and she had initiated the most expensive inquiry.

Palin lied when she denied that the Alaska Independence Party supports secession and denied that her husband had been a member; in fact, even the McCain campaign noted that the party's very existence is based on secession and that Todd was a member for seven years.

sabretoothtigger

the third surfer from the left looked Kenyan

his dad was kenyan born there and some of his relatives are still there. Thing is obama is american whether they like it or not, its very radical that he made it to the top so its no wonder theres some kick back. Pity then he hasnt managed to represent more but thats just politics in general I guess

I hope palin runs in 2012 A real revolution would be ron paul slightly unlikely though, I do think the odds of obama as 1 term is far more likely then most realised, I thought that 2 years ago.

1 term was the norm until Reagan arrived and that was at the start of the government debt bubble, coming to the end of it matches up with politics once again becomes more volatile as votes cant just be bought with more debt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_rOCDG_btk

A._Badger

[QUOTE=FTBFun;38271270

History is not really a theory is it? In any case, the "Marxist theory of history" isn't wrapped up in all ecompasing belief system.[/QUOTE]

You are joking, aren't you? Marxism was the most pervasive belief system of the 20th Century.