Long term sickness absence

WeakHeart

And Cavework, you mentioned the cost of engaging a solicitor. As recommended do check out the ACAS website it's great for employees and employers. Loads of information and templates for employers to use plus you can call the helpline for advice.

cavework

Googlewhacker wrote: »

There comes a point though where you have to put the business and the other employees needs above this employees needs. It seems you have been more than reasonable, so much so you allowed photocopies of a sick note (most employers would expect the original!)

Have to admit you are completely right on this and we have been told to ask for the original fit notes.
Thanks :T

mandragora_2

Does your business have any insurance which has legal cover as part of the package? A good employment law solicitor would be worth using if you can get one through this route.

cavework

mandragora wrote: »

Does your business have any insurance which has legal cover as part of the package? A good employment law solicitor would be worth using if you can get one through this route.

Must admit I haven,t checked this out. Obviously we have employers liability Insurance for 5 million etc and come to think about it I have an inkling that it does have legal cover..
Thank You

Uncertain

cavework wrote: »

Have to admit you are completely right on this and we have been told to ask for the original fit notes.
Thanks :T

If the employee is claiming ESA (SSP will have run out by now) then he needs the original.

Unless you have reason to believe the photocopies are to disguise forgeries then this is the least of your problems!

Are you sure there is no work related matters contributing to this chap's illness. If he won't communicate with you does this not suggest some problem?

You can obviously make a start down the capability route but you will need to take care to do this properly which probably means paying for legal advice. You will also have to pay the greater of statutory or contractual notice plus accrued holidays.

You do still run the risk of having to defend a claim, will all the associated costs, even assuming you ultimately win. An alternative is to offer some money by way of a compromise agreement and have an end to it at a known cost.

Uncertain

cavework wrote: »

I have an inkling that it does have legal cover..
Thank You

Most likely this will only cover defending a claim (if the insurance company think you are more likely than not to win) plus telephone advice. It is unlikely to cover legal fees to deal with the current situation.

cavework

Uncertain wrote: »

If the employee is claiming ESA (SSP will have run out by now) then he needs the original.

Unless you have reason to believe the photocopies are to disguise forgeries then this is the least of your problems!

Are you sure there is no work related matters contributing to this chap's illness. If he won't communicate with you does this not suggest some problem?

You can obviously make a start down the capability route but you will need to take care to do this properly which probably means paying for legal advice. You will also have to pay the greater of statutory or contractual notice plus accrued holidays.

You do still run the risk of having to defend a claim, will all the associated costs, even assuming you ultimately win. An alternative is to offer some money by way of a compromise agreement and have an end to it at a known cost.

The sickness absence is 100% not work related.
We have bent over backwards to accomodate this persons needs including accepting the faxed sick notes and non returned phone calls each time the sick note ran out.
We will not dismiss this person as we believe that at some stage they will be able to return to full time employment and as such their job remains open. We are happy to make all adjustments we can as a small business to enable them to return to full time work asap.
What we are finding from the employee is a total refusal to even meet us half way in enabling us to achieve this
and for the record as employers our patience is wearing thin,
PS -please read back .. we have had a return to work meeting (non Diciplinary)
As another PS .. why should we pay money to someone who may not want to return to work when the job is still avaliable?
Employee stil has 3 weeks SSP before having to claim ESP
.

Uncertain

cavework wrote: »

The sickness absence is 100% not work related.
We have bent over backwards to accomodate this persons needs including accepting the faxed sick notes and non returned phone calls each time the sick note ran out.
We will not dismiss this person as we believe that at some stage they will be able to return to full time employment and as such their job remains open. We are happy to make all adjustments we can as a small business to enable them to return to full time work asap.
What we are finding from the employee is a total refusal to even meet us half way in enabling us to achieve this
and for the record as employers our patience is wearing thin,
PS -please read back .. we have had a return to work meeting (non Diciplinary)
As another PS .. why should we pay money to someone who may not want to return to work when the job is still avaliable?
Employee stil has 3 weeks SSP before having to claim ESP
.

You say you want this person back but they won't "even meet us half way" in setting up what you regard as a workable phased return.

OK, so then you have two choices (assuming they won't change their mind:

Either go along with the phased return they find acceptable

or

Dismiss on capability grounds

The first option MIGHT eventually get this highly valued member of staff back to work.

The second means you lose them and maybe end up having to defend a claim.

As I have said before, you may well be on solid ground and be able to successfully defend a claim but it will cost you a significant amount in time and money to do so.

Also, sacking staff for being ill can make a good sob story for the local paper if the person is of that mindset.

I've seem far too many small business waste valuable time, energy and money defending small points of principle which is why I would always suggest resolving this type of problem with a compromise agreement. A known fixed cost (and it needn't be very much) brings a tidy, hassle free and confidential conclusion.

bluenoseam

I know this is a completely different story, but have you considered that in the time off said employee won't be able to complete a working day as he would have prior to going off? I was off for 7 months, albeit with serious medical treatment and honestly, my first half day back near killed me. Now i know it was depression (non-work related, i agree, you've done your end of the bargain well so far!) but it depends on what he's physically been doing in the ensuing time.

However i'd expect you speak to someone regarding his behavior during all of this. For example in his contract does it state that he must deliver sick notes within X number of days in person, or at the very least a family member presenting the original? I know in my own situation they were to be in within 2 days of the expiry of previous (to allow for weekends etc), they were handed in either by myself or on the one occasion i couldn't make it in (while i was still undergoing treatment) by my sister, but never "faxed in" - that just sounds, i dunno, kinda dodgy to me. You CANNOT screw around with holidays, if you do it leaves you in an open position, but at the same time if they are wanting to take them on their terms remind them that there are staff who have put holidays in ahead of time and they MUST be accomidated, reminding them that all holidays (as i'm sure is listed in contract) are subject to the requirements of the business, so long as he gets the holiday entitlement he's due then you're clear.

You can't force them back to a full time schedule as much as you might think it's a good idea, but i would request a meeting with his GP or an occupational health expert - because to me his conduct this far has been less than ideal and i'd be looking at getting some answers as to why it would be "7 weeks" as that seems a very definitive figure. Put it into context, going back to work after cancer treatment i was told that "it takes as long as it takes, could be weeks, could be months" - turned out i returned (a little early in hindsight) to full time work 6 weeks after returning.

Googlewhacker

Uncertain wrote: »

You say you want this person back but they won't "even meet us half way" in setting up what you regard as a workable phased return.

OK, so then you have two choices (assuming they won't change their mind:

Either go along with the phased return they find acceptable

or

Dismiss on capability grounds

The first option MIGHT eventually get this highly valued member of staff back to work.

The second means you lose them and maybe end up having to defend a claim.

As I have said before, you may well be on solid ground and be able to successfully defend a claim but it will cost you a significant amount in time and money to do so. They either accept your offer of return to work or stay of sick until they are better.

Also, sacking staff for being ill can make a good sob story for the local paper if the person is of that mindset.

I've seem far too many small business waste valuable time, energy and money defending small points of principle which is why I would always suggest resolving this type of problem with a compromise agreement. A known fixed cost (and it needn't be very much) brings a tidy, hassle free and confidential conclusion.

Whilst Uncertain does make some sense it all depends on how much the person wants as a payoff and also once you mention compromise agreement you put yourself on the back foot.

There is a third choice, you refuse to allow the phased return they request if they don't fit into business needs and offer alternates and put the ball back into their court.

Depending on how your relation is with the employee if you go down the compromised route you will most likely have an agreement made where you give a referance whereas if you defend it by a tribunal you can refuse to give a referance which in itself is a damning verdict on the employee.

However please make sure you get proper advice and please make sure you record all actions with all employees!