Calling All IT Professionals.......................

axomoxia

cskay wrote: »

What you are saying may be right in good job market conditions when employer is willing to train a prospective employee to his needs. But in a down economy when every employer is looking for means to reduce cost and also right talent is readily available that's usually not the case.
Even if the candidate has a good problem solving ability, it takes time to actually understand the problem. A process engineering company will prefer to employ a chemical engineer with programming knowledge than train a good programmer into chemical engineering.

Maybe I should be a bit more more clear. A lot of investment banks are _currently_ (i.e. right now, this minute) recruiting senior software engineers without specific investment banking experience.

What exactly would a chemical engineer be programming anyway? Ladder logic?

isplumm

Hi,

Well I am a business project manager - who contracts for a living - my day rate goes for from £250 upto £450 + VAT. It is unlikely you will be able to contract without 2-3 years solid experience - remember you will be up against people with years of experience - not only that, but they will have worked in the right industry.

I think your biggest issue will be experience - if you are into programming, have you thought about developing an app for something like the IPAD or the IPHONE - so that you can show prospective employers you have experience - maybe start a blog & a website - definetly get on linkedin.

It has taken me a number of years to get to this position - I left uni in 1995 & have been contracting for about 4 years .. but remember that contracting can have its quiet times.

Another thing to try - is get a job in 1st line support, then move up within the organisation - good way of getting into companies & building knowledge about IT & the business - crap money - but look to move after a year.

Mark

nearlyrich

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Well, it took me about 3 years to go from 'graduate' to earning >35K. Now i've been doing it for 5 years and just got asked by a firm out of the blue if i'd like to apply for a "6 figure" permanent job (thank you linkedin!)..

Linked in is great I got my current job from a contact on there. I have been in the industry since the late 80's on the sales side which is lucrative if you have the relationships and track record to offer. My last 5 jobs have been degree required but I haven't got one just a decent track record and a good set of contacts and relationships...;)

cskay

axomoxia wrote: »

Maybe I should be a bit more more clear. A lot of investment banks are _currently_ (i.e. right now, this minute) recruiting senior software engineers without specific investment banking experience.

What exactly would a chemical engineer be programming anyway? Ladder logic?

You may be in better position to understand that there are many areas within IB i.e. M&A (mergers and acquisitions), information services/research, corporate finance, financial markets (Equities, Derivatives, Commodity Futures, etc.) and so on. It is highly domain specific industry. From my little knowledge I understand that languages don't tend to matter nearly as much as domain knowledge.
A reasonable level of mathematical competency is required. One may not code a bond pricing formula but need to understand concepts such as discounting and the like.

I rest my case with quote from somebody's earlier post

axomoxia wrote: »

Ideally C++ / Java / C# with Statistical Calculus. Get a few (like 7 or 8 years solid experience, four or five of which needs to be at an investment bank / financial software house) then go contracting in the city. Rates are currently £500/day +. More for quant development, but you'll need a pHd in maths. You'll need to like a. working for the financial industry and b. working in london.

axomoxia

cskay wrote: »

You may be in better position to understand that there are many areas within IB i.e. M&A (mergers and acquisitions), information services/research, corporate finance, financial markets (Equities, Derivatives, Commodity Futures, etc.) and so on. It is highly domain specific industry. From my little knowledge I understand that languages don't tend to matter nearly as much as domain knowledge.
A reasonable level of mathematical competency is required. One may not code a bond pricing formula but need to understand concepts such as discounting and the like.

I rest my case with quote from somebody's earlier post

!!!!!!. If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, some people are positively lethal.

Languages are far more important than domain knowledge. Unless you want to be involved in testing, pre-sales support or technical relationship management, or you want to be a business analyst.
Bond discounting (I presume you are referring to zero-coupon bonds) are calculated by a "bond formula". As an IT person you are far more likely to be coding someone else's bond formula. Designing the formula usually requires a maths / physics phd (and what makes you the serious money - but these people are theoretical mathematicians first and software engineers second)

As to the quote from my previous post, I suggest you read it again. Note the bit about contract and quantative development requiring a phd. There are plenty of investment banking roles for senior permanent employees that do not require previous investment banking experience. Look on jobserve.

alunharford

cskay wrote: »

From my little knowledge I understand that languages don't tend to matter nearly as much as domain knowledge.

Neither matters much.

Domain knowledge is largely irrelevant.

Knowledge of a particular programming language doesn't matter much either - good programmers can learn one in a few hours. That said, it's easier to interview people if they know a programming language that you know too. In addition, knowing a particular technology can be useful to a small subset of contractors who make a living helping companies with best practices when adopting new technologies.

In the past I've worked in genetics, medical software and marketing sectors and now I'm doing a contract gig for an investment bank. I've never worked in banking before and it's simply not an issue.

Software developers need to write high quality, maintainable, correct code that meets their users' needs (and preferably quickly).

cskay

alunharford wrote: »

Neither matters much.

I agree with you around half + a bit

My current project is an example of irrelevancy of knowing a language. I had responsibility to convert a large scale VB6 user interface to WPF/C# (estimated to be 12 man years job). Without being WPF/C# expert I am able to get it almost done in less than half the estimate(used machines to code, rather than programmers ).

But on the other hand nobody even imagines about converting 30 years of legacy Fortran calculation engines. We have one of the the domain experts nearing retirement but last couple of years global head hunting hasn't resulted in much success. With pure programmers you still need a domain expert who has to lay down detailed specifications and make the programmer understand them. Companies prefer programmers with some knowledge of domain so that the learning curve is not so hard.
But there are always domains that have low barrier to entry or employer is willing to invest in training.