What happens in court?

karenx

My CSA case with the NRP of my son is going to court in december.
Its been an ongoing battle the past 7 years and Iv still not recieved a penny!
He basically lies to csa about everything but with myself and my case worker we have enough evidence to contradict what he is saying.

Anybody had any experience of a court case? Either as a PWC or a NRP.
What happens if he is found not guilty? Does that mean I still wont see a penny?
What happens if he is found guilty? How soon will he have to start paying 7 years worth of arrears plus regular maintance?
Case worker mentioned a while ago there is a possibility of his passport being taken away also. Is this the kind of thing that would happen on the day to stop him leaving the country, or would that happen afterwards if he still continues to not pay?

TBH its not even about the money anymore, survived this long without it! I just want him to know he isnt getting away with it any longer!

gratefulforhelp_2

Don't know, but good luck.

Kimitatsu

You can always pm speedster or bdt1 - they both have experience of the court system with the CSA.

I cant help I am afraid - but let us know how you get on, I know what you mean about it not being about the money! Sometimes its just about getting vindication that they cannot keep flouting the rules

bdt1

Is it Tribunal you are attending? Just to clarify, as this is totally different from Magistrate/County Court hearing.

If you and caseworker are presenting evidence that NRP is not being truthful then I suspect it is a Tribunal hearing, not Court.

It is highly unlikely they will touch his passport, but you will need to give us more details if we can help

JulietAmber_2

Every case is different. Only been through it once as a NRPP's sister (work that one out!) It depends a lot on the circumstances of NRP. If he has a new family, they won't take his home or assets. If he travels abroad for work, they won't take his passport (likewise for his driving licence).
They'll look at the facts, whether he does in fact owe arrears and how much he should be paying in maintenance. They look at his income and will possibly say that he pays 40% of his income until arrears are paid, then be reduced to normal amount of maintenance.
For my sister - they whacked a 40% on his income (he had no assets). He paid for a month then 'lost' his job and went on benefits. She hasn't seen a penny since.

bdt1

If it is a Tribunal they won't do any of the above as it is not a Court. Only if he has arrears - or alleged arrears (or very serious offence) will he end up in County/Magistrate Court, who after a few appearances and non-compliance may look at Custodial Sentence, seizing of passport , driving licence etc, but these incidences are very rare, and the NRP usually has to appear many times before this occurs as a last resort.

If your NRP is ending up in Court as result of non-payment of arrears, it is usually initially to serve a Liability Order, so that the debt is legalised, at this point no passport/driving licence revoke would even be considered. After the Liaility Order is served, CSA usually enforce the debt and will aim to have any arrears paid off within their 2 year target. If the NRP cannot/will not agree to these terms, CSA will then proceed with CCJ, bailiff action and a charge on any property he may own. Only if after that they ar not successful will they look at taking NRP back to Court for further action, which is where driving licence/passport etc come into play - eventually - as I know Kelloggs ex was in Court many times for arrears, and they gave him chance after chance...............Prepare for the long haul

karenx

bdt1 wrote: »

If it is a Tribunal they won't do any of the above as it is not a Court. Only if he has arrears - or alleged arrears (or very serious offence) will he end up in County/Magistrate Court, who after a few appearances and non-compliance may look at Custodial Sentence, seizing of passport , driving licence etc, but these incidences are very rare, and the NRP usually has to appear many times before this occurs as a last resort.

If your NRP is ending up in Court as result of non-payment of arrears, it is usually initially to serve a Liability Order, so that the debt is legalised, at this point no passport/driving licence revoke would even be considered. After the Liaility Order is served, CSA usually enforce the debt and will aim to have any arrears paid off within their 2 year target. If the NRP cannot/will not agree to these terms, CSA will then proceed with CCJ, bailiff action and a charge on any property he may own. Only if after that they ar not successful will they look at taking NRP back to Court for further action, which is where driving licence/passport etc come into play - eventually - as I know Kelloggs ex was in Court many times for arrears, and they gave him chance after chance...............Prepare for the long haul

Thanks, my case went to criminal complaince a while ago.
He was employed, didnt pay. Went to a DEO, he quit. Went on JSA, told £5 per week was coming off, so he signed off. Since then his story to the csa is he does not work and still continues to tell them this. But we have copies of his tax returns for his business he has had the past 4 years, proof of his earnings for a sport he plays. Proof of 2 cars he has, plus another he just got a few weeks ago. He has a mortgage on his house also.
He has told our case worker he will not be paying a penny towards his son, now or ever.
So in these circumstances if he still refuses to pay will they be able to put a charge on his house etc?

bdt1

Not necessarily. You need to put in an appeal on grounds of 'lifestyle inconsistent with declared earnings', if you can prove this great, but otherwise you will need a lot of evidence. Keep a log you will need it

You will need to appeal this action, then if CSA Appeals Dept will not change the assessment based on info/evidence you have given, ask for an oral hearing before an Independent Appeal Tribunal where all evidence will be heard in front of an Independent Judge, and CSA REp, you and your ex will also be given chance to present all evidence /stories etc. They will be more thorough than CSA ever are

Criminal Compliance can proceed cases to Court, but these can still be challenged and overturned, so I wouldn't hold your breath, for all he may have a business, and 2 cars, plus mortgage, (he may be able to offset these costs) but in these times of recession, if he can provide accounts then you may not win anyway - just please be prepared - not all S/E put everything through books and it is tricky for you as outsider to prove (or Judge)

With regard to charge on house, then if he owns it, eventually, yes CSA can get charge on house, but as Kelloggs will tell you, her ex made many many appearances over years and many many promises before enforcement was made by Court, so don't hold your breath for anything soon, and they certainly won't take his passsport/licence until the last possible moment prior to commital. BuT CSA aim is for any arrears to be negotiated to be paid within their 2 year target - not law but they will tell alll and sundry this - keep in touch if we can help

karenx

I have already put in an appeal for lifestyle inconsistent. Done this a few years ago thats why it went to criminal compliance. I have lots of evidence yes. Facebook print outs etc.
Criminal compliance has already sent it to court and we have the date for it too.

bdt1

Ok, just to clarify.............I'm assuming this is a Magistrate Court hearing in relation to the NRP telling untruths regarding income and non-compliance regarding payment,a nd that lifestyle inconsistent has already been established - possibly Tribunal hearing already taken place.

Or is this a Tribunal hearing in relation to lifestyle inconsistent? Just the two are totally different scenario's and I don't think you have said which it is?

karenx

I dont know which it is then. I complained to CSA a few years ago after being told the NRP is not working and hasnt been for some time. I said well he has a house, plays a pro sport he gets paid for plus all these cars, holidays etc. It eventually went to criminal compliance where they asked if I had evidence to back all this up. One of my friends sold him one of his cars so I got proof from him that he paid cash, a large amount too. Also facebook print outs where he talks about his new car he just bought, things he bought for it, holidays he had just booked, hard days at work etc.
Gave it to my case worker who then made an appointment with him to go see him. She didnt tell him about the evidence but just asked questions about his work etc. He continued to say he doesnt work, has no cars and his girlfriend pays for everything in the house. She always asks him on every visit if he can afford to pay me anything and he says no as he has no money
All this while one of the cars I have pictures from facebook of is sitting outside the house and the private reg is his name!
Every 6 months the case worker would go see him and ask the same questions but he would still say the same thing that he doesnt work etc.
Case worker has also gotten ahold of his tax returns etc, proof he owns these cars. Yet he must think CSA wouldnt think about going down these routes to see if he is telling the truth or not.
Tail end of last year my case worker came over and asked me to check over all the evidence that she had both from herself and my findings. Then said she was going back to the office to finalise everything to send off to court. And the next I would hear would be after the court date when Im told what has happened at it. As I found out a few more things I called her a few months ago and she said she will take note of it but the files were already submitted to the court and they have agreed on a date for it as they think no more evidence is required. I assume they said this as they think they have alot to go on already.
So maybe a tribunual has already been had and this is why its at the court stage?