can they change NHS pension overnight? from Final salary to Average salary?

bigfreddiel

Wornoutnurse wrote: »

I've made an appointment with a financial advisor next week, looks like I'll be retiring on my 58th birthday.

Thanks to those of you who have tried to explain all this to me, unfortunately I'm pretty dumb at tax, pensions etc, hence the appointment!

Just watch out when you meet an FA because he will be in selling mode at the end of the day, and it won't be FA, it coud cost you an arm and a leg, I can tell you that for free!

Please follow the advice on this forum, its really very good, and if its not clear, just simplify your question and it will be answered.

fj

newleaf

Wornoutnurse wrote: »

It was in todays Daily Mail. There was a table for calculating the age at which the State Pension will now be payable and also some text descriing the change in the NHS scheme from 12th April 2012, which affects all current staff.

This is pure speculation and scaremongering.

Nothing will be decided until Lord Hutton's final report is published next spring. Yes, there will be changes, but until next year no-one knows what timescale they will propose.

There will probably be a consultation period, the unions will argue about it. Eventually, changes will be made. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Trust me, I am as keen to know what's happening as you are
But please don't waste your energy worrying about anything printed in the Daily Mail!

getmore4less

THE NHS schemes have never been final salary.

The current NHS pensions options as I understand it are

OLD
Best of the last 3 year.

Average of the best 3 in the last 10 years
but the pay is indexed and made up to full time equivilents.

Most career NHS staff will be on top band by then so it makes little difference.

The one thing that is harder is the enhancing of the pension by changing shifts, in the old scheme you only needed to so it for one year now you need 3. , going to nights for a year was a common way to enhance the pension, another trick is go part time but only do enhanced shiftsweekends/bank holidays will give 20%-30% lift

But this is compensated a bit by other factors which in a lot of cases improves the pension for those switching, older people had the choice to stay on the old scheme anyway for a while.

getmore4less

Nurse99 wrote: »

Hello

I am an NHS nurse, on a Final salary scheme. I have 18 months before I have Full years of pension, and am currently old enough to retire.


The government are planning to change from a final salary scheme to a Average salary scheme.

HOW QUICKLY can the Government do this? Can they do it overnight? or would i have time to consider my position after they make the announcement?

if they can change the scheme overnight then i would rather just retire now and get a part time job in the private sector

i am really worried thanks for all your advice.

Are you still on the old or moved to the new scheme?

Are you special case that can do the extra years?

Have you done the work enhanced shifts in one of the last 3 years trick to boost the pension?

The other thing to look at is taking the pension and going back to work.

The pension is index linked anyway so the loss of 18month might not be that bad.

Shimrod

dunstonh wrote: »

I did wonder if it was a Yes Prime Minister based myth.

What about the practice in councils of awarding extra service to people before they retire to boost their pension? I suspect this only applies to councillors rather than all staff though!

Andy_L

Shimrod wrote: »

What about the practice in councils of awarding extra service to people before they retire to boost their pension? I suspect this only applies to councillors rather than all staff though!

Most FS schemes give people extra years of service when early retirement is given as a (sometimes compulsary) alternative to redundancy. Depending on scheme rules/salary/service etc it can be cheaper than redundancy (it often was in the, old, civil service scheme).
In the case of the local gov scheme wt was often used to get rid of staff as the cost came out of the pension fund (which had large surplesses ~20 years ago) rather than the day-to-day budget so, as far as the budget holders were concerned, it was "free" to give early retirement instead of redundancy, even if the real cost was higher

Goldenyears

The reason that retrospective career averaging is unlikely is the improbability of official payroll records surviving decades. Say you were 18 in 1970 and employed in the NHS. Where are the central records of what you earned in 1970 :question:

deferred_pensioner

Wornoutnurse wrote: »

It was in todays Daily Mail. There was a table for calculating the age at which the State Pension will now be payable and also some text descriing the change in the NHS scheme from 12th April 2012, which affects all current staff.

I've made an appointment with a financial advisor next week, looks like I'll be retiring on my 58th birthday.

Thanks to those of you who have tried to explain all this to me, unfortunately I'm pretty dumb at tax, pensions etc, hence the appointment!

What ever you do don’t let this "financial advisor" persuade you to transfer your pension away from the NHS it would without doubt be a VERY big mistake.

You have had some good advice on here , read it , think about it.

The pension you have accrued (earned) up till now is completely safe and will not be reduced or taken away..

If and when they bring in the new scheme which on the track record of government departments could take ages you will just join the new scheme

When you join the new scheme think of it like this Assuming your salary stays the same for two years until you retire it will be “averaged” and guess what it will equal your salary you will not suffer at all.

Relax , put your feet up and thank your lucky stars you are in the position you are.

Chill.

bigjl

Andy_L wrote: »

Thats one of those "bloke said, down the pub" statements - Annacedotally i've never seen it happen & i'm unawae of any evidence it's common.

Common practice in the Police, promote to Desk Sergeant (?spelling) for the last few years of somebodies career.

Though one thing about all these people slagging off NHS pensions as overly generous.

I pay over £400 a month into mine, though £200 of that is additional years, they are not free and mine is a 40/80 scheme if you manage the entire 40 years that is.

From memory I pay in 6.5% of pensionable pay, and have to work till I am 60 as an absolute minimum, though some groups can retire at 55, Nurses for example, not sure if that applies to all Nurses, but they are listed as a special group.

My job is the most physically demanding and sometimes can be extremely mentally demanding, would you want to be carrying a 20 stone drunk, in his early twenties, around and about at 60?



The only public sector workers, in my opinion, with a cushy pension are certain council workers, MP's and the Fire Brigade.

bigjl

getmore4less wrote: »

THE NHS schemes have never been final salary.

The current NHS pensions options as I understand it are

OLD
Best of the last 3 year.

Average of the best 3 in the last 10 years
but the pay is indexed and made up to full time equivilents.

Most career NHS staff will be on top band by then so it makes little difference.

The one thing that is harder is the enhancing of the pension by changing shifts, in the old scheme you only needed to so it for one year now you need 3. , going to nights for a year was a common way to enhance the pension, another trick is go part time but only do enhanced shiftsweekends/bank holidays will give 20%-30% lift

But this is compensated a bit by other factors which in a lot of cases improves the pension for those switching, older people had the choice to stay on the old scheme anyway for a while.

What do you define as a final salary scheme then?

The reason that it is the best of the last three years is incase the person has medical problems that affect them towards the end of their career, it wouldn't be fair for somebody to work on £50k a year for 20 years then in the last year they only earn £25k, and get a lower pension a a result.

From your post I assume you don't work for the NHS.

The old scheme was a 1/80 scheme, the new one is a 1/60 scheme.

The old scheme has an automatic lump sum of three times your annual pension.

The new scheme doesn't automatically give you a lump but you can substitute some of your annual pension for a lump sum.

The only person that can put you from one svheme to another is the person whose pension it is, for example I have stayed on the old pension, mainly due to my additional years contract, which is just over 10 years at retirement, but I have to pay £216 a year till I retire to get that.

The reason that I was allowed to buy this many years is because I joined the NHS when I was thirty, which means at 60 I would be 10 year short of full pension.

I also beleive that the new scheme has a retirement age of 65, though don't quote me on that.

The days of changing shifts (in the NHS) to increase your pension are long gone in my opinion, it may have happened years ago.

It is funny how everybody focuses on the pension these days, not the fact that NHS staff have to deal with the rubbish of society day in and day out without much in the way of thanks. Or bonuses, even if we bring in systems or ideas that save our trust money./