Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

Maisie

dunker wrote:

First - sorry if there has already been discussion about 1991 values of 'right to buy' council houses. I tried to search but of course pretty much every post has council, tax, right, buy etc so no luck. Here it is:

I have asked for rebanding on the grounds that my house, an ex-council property, was worth much less than the 52k+ band it's in now, in 1991. At that time council house prices were seriously lower than others - few people wanted ex-council. I want to produce evidence that similar properties (and they are all VERY similar, being council) in similar areas (rural, local) were being sold at Band A prices in 1991. Problem: How to find out what they were being sold for in 1991. I've asked the council under FOI legislation. They reply that the only records they have now are the summary reports. I don't believe them - how long should they keep records of asset sales of this value? It's public domain info - I could get it at the Land Registry (just down the road as it happens) but it would cost £15 a go, and I don't know what addresses to search.

The local Valuation Office (Bournemouth) have written to say and emphasise that banding is based on Open Market Value at the time; I point out that these houses never came on the open market and valuations were made "as if" they were. Any one had experience of this very specific area?

Andy

Andy your post interested me as this house was 'ex-council'. I searched the archived newspapers for 1991 and could only find a couple of these houses for sale.
I was thinking about the clause of not selling before so many years because you would lose the discount and wondered if that was still in place in 1991? Any idea?

As far as I can see from 1991 prices this house should be in a lower band
and that with some other evidence is why I'm pursuing this.

Maisie

Altarf

moose_2000 wrote:

:eek: I recently appealed my banding as I am a D and a property that is exactly the same and similar properties are all band C. I received a letter stating that my band is correct and therefore they are going to put up the other properties instead! Not only am i going to be off everyones christmas card list when I asked how to appeal they said i couldn't as I have lived in the property for over 6 months. I bought the house in 1998 and paid under the price bracket for band D then and the other propery has been sold twice so ample opportunity to reband I would have thought. I am really at a loss as to what to do next, any ideas?

The VOA's own guidance (published on their website) says that they should only increase the band of a property brought to their attention by a third party (yes I know this was not what you intended, but...) if it is clearly in the wrong band, such as its value being towards the midpoint of the higher band. They don't want to be proved wrong by the mass of complaint letters that they will inevitably get from the ex-band C houses, and want to make sure that they are right. So they must think that the properties were worth around £78,000 in 1991. If the properties just tipped over into the higher band (e.g. £70,000) they would leave all the other properties as band C, but leave you as band D (yes that would not be fair, but this is tax).

If there have not been any alterations that the VOA has been notified of, then they would not have rebanded any of the properties when they were sold. So if it was 'wrong' at band D or band C it will stay 'wrong' until it is brought to the VOA's attention or someone submits a valid appeal.

The VOA are correct in that you cannot appeal, but they need to maintain an accurate register. If you are serious about getting your band changed, then you will need to build a substantial case that the VOA is wrong. This is a lot more than figures from house price calculators and your neighbours band being different. You say that you bought your property for less than £68,000 in 1998. Unless it was in serous disrepair (which is disregarded by the VOA) then that should be the starting point for your research. How much were similar properties in the area selling for in 1991?

Maisie

How does the system work when houses have been extended?
Does the council inform the voa when work is finished?

I'm wondering why so many extended houses are not brought to the attention of the voa ? Especially after a sale when the council tax banding might change.

I've noticed in this area that many extended some years ago (and house sold) have not had a c/tax banding change but recently extended houses have had an indicator( i) put on their banding or banding changed.

Are the councils/voa more on the ball now and keeping their records up to date?

hethmar

My 80 year old aunt lives in a 2 bed semi detached bungalow built about 1980 and on a small estate of mixed props.

She found out her banding of C is higher than similar props and in fact extended ones in her road.

I did an on line appeal, listing a sample of properties in her road which are the same size or larger and are in B band.

She tells me she has now received a letter saying she has no grounds for a reduction to band B.

She lives 300 miles away from me and Im quite prepared to appeal for her but will it be very stressful for such an elderly lady? Has anyone been through the appeals procedure please?

I really dont understand how they have refused her when the bungalows opposite are exactly the same size and Band B and the ones either side of her are C but with extensions on - 2 doors up same as her, Band B???

Maisie

Are they telling your Aunt that it's because of the 6 month rule ?

dunker_2

Maisie wrote: »

Andy your post interested me as this house was 'ex-council'. I searched the archived newspapers for 1991 and could only find a couple of these houses for sale.
I was thinking about the clause of not selling before so many years because you would lose the discount and wondered if that was still in place in 1991? Any idea?

As far as I can see from 1991 prices this house should be in a lower band
and that with some other evidence is why I'm pursuing this.

Maisie

It gets even more ironic as you look at the valuation process. The local authority was required to assess the market value of each property it sold under the right to buy scheme. The irony is that the same authority valued it at 12k to sell it and 52k to band it. Odd.

There is a covenent in each transfer which requires the owner to repay a proportion of the discount received if they sell the property before a number of years have elapsed.

I have discovered that councils are at liberty to destroy old financial records at any time (Source: http://www.communities.gov.uk call from researcher yesterday) so no chance of looking at their ledgers.

I may be reduced to this:

Print a short handout explaining the possibility of incorrect banding and driving round the villages looking for similar properties, then doorstepping unsuspecting residents to ask if they own the house, when bought, how much. Set up a sort of 'class action' ! Because the houses were all built to much the same design and standard it might well hold up.....

Any information gratefully received...

Andy

Maisie

Andy I did this the other way round. I put all the different roads in the voa site then any houses that were lower banded I noted and then went to look at them.
If there were similar houses to ours with a lower banding I had some evidence to support our claim.

It also eliminates those houses with same or higher banding before you start knocking on doors.

I think the 12K you mention must have been the discounted price for tenants and market valuation £52K which they based the council tax banding on.

Maisie

Maisie

skcollobcat10 wrote: »

I have just successfully had my main house and my flat reduced in banding. My house was the more expensive. I telephoned the Land Registry in Scotland and asked them could I have a list of all the times the house has sold and the amount that was paid each time. I had to pay £10 over the phone with my card and I received the details the next day by post. It had only cost me £1.94 in total to get all the info back to 1935. This I used as extra ammunition with the assessors. I have also put a note on successful rebanding thread on the site.

That's very interesting. Somewhere else to get information. I suppose it would be the same access to this info in England?
This would help Andy.

We've lived in this house since it was built so can't do the same in our case.
I have the documents from when we bought it.

Maisie

Altarf

dunker wrote: »

I have asked for rebanding on the grounds that my house, an ex-council property, was worth much less than the 52k+ band it's in now, in 1991. At that time council house prices were seriously lower than others - few people wanted ex-council. I want to produce evidence that similar properties (and they are all VERY similar, being council) in similar areas (rural, local) were being sold at Band A prices in 1991. Problem: How to find out what they were being sold for in 1991. I've asked the council under FOI legislation. They reply that the only records they have now are the summary reports. I don't believe them - how long should they keep records of asset sales of this value? It's public domain info - I could get it at the Land Registry (just down the road as it happens) but it would cost £15 a go, and I don't know what addresses to search.

The local Valuation Office (Bournemouth) have written to say and emphasise that banding is based on Open Market Value at the time; I point out that these houses never came on the open market and valuations were made "as if" they were.

Your comment about asking the council seems to imply that you are only considering those properties sold by the council under the 'Right to buy' legislation, which should have been valued at an open market value (which should match the council tax band) and the buyer then receive the appropriate discount (which obviously has no effect on the council tax band). Are you not considering ex-council houses that had been previously purchased under 'Right to buy' and then were being re-sold? As the 'Right to buy' legislation was first introduced in 1980 it would be very surprising if you could not find any ex-council houses that had been sold around 1991.

I would also be surprised even if the council had the information on the valuation of the properties sold under 'Right to buy' if it would release it under the FOI as it would be personal to the person who purchased the property.

My suggestion would be to research the prices of ex-council properties being resold.

tarinilie

poorperson wrote: »

Although not quite the same thing, there is a thread on the CAG site where someone received someone else's bank statements. Would you class this as an Admin. Error? The MP was involved as was the Chairman of the bank concerned.

sure ok in that case there seems an issue with confidential information been passed on , but bearing in mind we pay MP's salary I'd rather they got involved in 'real' problems and issues of injustice.

So what you recieved someone's post - what's your big problem ?
I'd rather you didn't waste MP's time with such trivia and let them focus on real issues.