Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

praven

majorstu wrote:

Can anyone suggest anything we can use at appeal e.g. case law or other argument to force a rebanding +/- a refund?

My valuation office never even quoted the 6 month appeal rule to me. I presented them with my evidence for why I thought we were in the wrong band and they went straight into an investigation. Martin's article states 'The Listings Office has a duty to ensure all bands are correct, so it should investigate your representations and alter the Valuation List if it believes it's required.' Did you present your evidence to them or just ask for an investigation?

Paul

majorstu

Hi Paul,

Yes, we sent information to the valuation office (although probably not as much as we could - what did you send?). Although we are very confident that we are misbanded (considering other properties in the area) we are still being passed to the appeal tribunal.

It seems from reading previous posts that it is a little bit pot luck if the valuations office depends to re-assess you band/refund any over payments. Some offices seem to be doing this, others flatly refusing. There must be some legal principle here - if some offices do it, they all should, since they are the same agency?

With best wishes,

Stuart.

mapleoak

watcherman wrote:

Can I ask what you based your claim on, as I just had a 2nd refusal letter today, saying they (the VOA) don't consider the house price indices (ie Nationwide site I assume) as a suitable method of evaluating value.

Well I based my claim on the simple fact that 2 houses to the left of ours and 3 to the right are in Band C and we are in Band D. I checked out the Nationwide site and Nethouseprices and felt it was worth asking the question. I rang them on the 1st Feb, heard nothing for 2 weeks and then a letter came out of the blue saying they needed to "survey the property", which amounted to being asked to confirm how many rooms, toilets, etc and that was about it. Mentioned that they had us down as having a garage, which the house has never had, so whether that is what originally put is in Band D, I don't know.

Anyway, he just said they would look into it further and get back to me within the next few weeks.

That's about it really.

bye_bye_band_G

majorstu wrote:

It seems from reading previous posts that it is a little bit pot luck if the valuations office depends to re-assess you band/refund any over payments. Some offices seem to be doing this, others flatly refusing. There must be some legal principle here - if some offices do it, they all should, since they are the same agency?

With best wishes,

Stuart.

Majorstu, I would bet my bottom dollar that the difference between you and praven is that you've made an APPEAL (online, or by letter, if you mention the word appeal they will treat it as such) and he's just asked to have his band REASSESSED or REVIEWED which is a different approach, is treated differently, but should, if you present your evidence carefully and thoroughly, yield the same result.
Please read my post #659 on page 33 which explains the two different ways of approaching the VOA. It's not such pot luck as it might seem!

Altarf

majorstu wrote:

It seems from reading previous posts that it is a little bit pot luck if the valuations office depends to re-assess you band/refund any over payments. Some offices seem to be doing this, others flatly refusing. There must be some legal principle here - if some offices do it, they all should, since they are the same agency?

There is a legal principal - If you are within 6 months of moving in or one of the other basis for an appeal applies, then you can appeal. If not you can't.

However the VOA has a duty to maintain the council tax list, and you can present them with evidence as to why you think the list is wrong. If they agree they amend the band, however if they disagree with you, you cannot appeal their decision. You could I suppose theoretically seek a judicial review at the High Court...

As soon as Martin's TV show had been on I predicted that the VOA were going to be a lot more strict in the application of the rules. It appears I was right.

So if you are past the 6 months, unless you have some other basis then all you can rely on is that the VOA agree that your banding is wrong. People appear to be submitting an appeal / asking for a review based on one of two reasons, historic house price calculators and differences with neighbouring houses, but without submitting any other evidence. Both of these methods have problems.

Historic house price calculators - These are very rough guides. They cover huge areas and when this error factor is multiplied over 16 years you can end up way out. My opinion is that if you do the check with a historic house price calculators and think that you are in the wrong band, that is a starting point for your research, not the only evidence that you should submit to the VOA.

Differences with neighbouring houses - There have been a number of posts where people have missed the subtle difference between their band being wrong and their neighbours house being wrong. They will only change your band if it is your house that is wrong. The VOA will not change your band if it is the neighbour's band that is wrong, as it would make the council tax list worse, but they may leave your neighbour in their wrong band, as the VOA will not increase a banding that resulted from a third party enquiry unless it is obviously wrong (two identical houses in different bands doesn't count). This may not be fair, but its the rules. So again my opinion is that if you think that you are in the wrong band due to neighbours bandings, that is a starting point for your research, not the only evidence that you should submit to the VOA.

Remember that when asking the VOA to review your band you have one shot at this as you have no right of appeal, so you need to get all your facts together at the start.

I suspect that if the VOA get a case that is solely based a historic house price calculator or one of my neighbours properties is a different band, or I have a smaller house than my neighbours and they are band Z so I must be band A, the VOA will do a quick scan of their list to see if there is anything blatantly wrong. If your band looks 'ok' you get the standard, 'Get lost you are out of time' letter. However if you send in with a carefully argued, fully detailed case with evidence to support it, then it might get properly looked at.

To support my case - I have been in my house 7 years, all the neighbouring houses are the same band as me, and the house price calculators placed me in the same band as the VOA. By assembling lots of other evidence I successfully argued my case and the VOA lowered my band.

watcherman

Thanks Altarf....Unfortunately I think the banding issue was a bit sensationalised, without all the possible/probable pitfalls being pointed out.

hengadno

I note from the article, that bandings in Wales have been reassessed since 1 April 1991.
So in order to get an appropriate value on the Nationwide Houseprice Calculator for a house in Wales what year (and Quarter) should I be setting it to (assuming 1991 / Q2 would now be incorrect)?

Can anyone please advise?

Regards

Hengadno

praven

majorstu wrote:

Hi Paul,

Yes, we sent information to the valuation office (although probably not as much as we could - what did you send?).

My evidence was three sales of our house extrapolated back to April 1991 using the Nationwide calculator. I suggested that based on that evidence it ought to be in a lower band and asked did they agree.

I started the process mid December. The case officer phoned me mid-week to say he would get back to me within a week.

Paul

flyforfun

Does anyone know how new properties should be banded? My understanding is that they should be banded according to what the property would have been worth if it existed in 1991.

I've bought 2 properties, one in 1996 and one in 2000 in the same borough and the first one was put into the band that related to the purchase price of the house. The second was placed in a cheaper banding.

Is contacting the VOA my best first point of contact or my local council? Should I mention the second property or only use that as a back up plan?

watcherman

praven wrote:

My evidence was three sales of our house extrapolated back to April 1991 using the Nationwide calculator. I suggested that based on that evidence it ought to be in a lower band and asked did they agree.

I started the process mid December. The case officer phoned me mid-week to say he would get back to me within a week.

Paul

I'd be interested to see what they say Paul, my VOA rejected it based on the Nationwide site evidence, saying it wasn't a reliable indicator.