Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

Leodogger

lincroft1710 wrote: »

If you're happy to accept the VOA's explanation, don't go to tribunal. If you're not,go.

Well obviously I am not happy but is it worth appealing again considering they can trot out their own version of the info but any evidence I have is immediately discounted as "cannot compare large properties with small because it depends on the price paid in 1991 (how can I find that out!), yet they have the info. Also I don't have access to the actual prices any of them paid in 1991 although I know of many in the street same size as ours what they paid in 2000 and working it backwards -61% as suggested on the web, would make them worth approx. £23,000 but again the VOA discounted that as "across borders prices differ" ????

How can you argue with that that, even though I am surrounded by properties much larger than ours all in the same tax band, they will not discuss them ! My only way of comparing like for like is looking at similar properties and what they are selling for and working the price back to 1991 and even then they tell me they don't use the same price calculators but work on solicitors' data, which I don't have access to, so sounds like a waste of time. Yet I successfully argued my point in my last property and that was on behalf of a complete development of 2 bed terraced OAP bungalows (21 in all) which had been bracketed into the same tax band as all the 3 bed semi houses in the adjoining street which were much larger and the appeal went through and was accepted and they down rated all the development, that was through Birmingham Valuation Office whereas this time it is through Southampton.

gazluv

I'm in the process (long and drawn out one at that) of going to my library and searching through micro-film of a local newspaper printed in 1991 which has a property section.
I am looking for any houses sold in this time similar to my parents house.....I have found one which is on an adjacent road and in 1991 was selling at a price which is well within the tax band i am looking to get theirs reduced to. This is going to be part of my evidence at the tribunal hearing.

JWhite, you could also try this.

lincroft1710 after checking with my parents the extension was done in 1994, their tax band increased on 13 Jan 1995.
I have been given a date for the hearing.
If nothing more comes from it, at least I'll have had a day out in Chester. :beer:

Leodogger

gazluv wrote: »

I'm in the process (long and drawn out one at that) of going to my library and searching through micro-film of a local newspaper printed in 1991 which has a property section.
I am looking for any houses sold in this time similar to my parents house.....I have found one which is on an adjacent road and in 1991 was selling at a price which is well within the tax band i am looking to get theirs reduced to. This is going to be part of my evidence at the tribunal hearing.

JWhite, you could also try this.

lincroft1710 after checking with my parents the extension was done in 1994, their tax band increased on 13 Jan 1995.
I have been given a date for the hearing.
If nothing more comes from it, at least I'll have had a day out in Chester. :beer:

Please let us know the outcome. Sometimes you feel like the whole establishment is stacked up against you. They have all the cards and you are left with scratching around trying to find info they are hoping doesn't exist or you won't bother trying to find, yet they KNOW what all the prices were in your street in 1991 (if they are telling the truth and it exists) and are probably ignoring the bits they don't want to use and using more recent market price hikes to justify their claims that your house is in a higher tax band and herein lies the problem. If everyone had access to the same information, they might be smiling on the other side of their faces

By the way when I first spoke to the department which issued the appeal notice, she told me they got their price info from the Inland Revenue. It was only when I challenged this and countered it with "how would the Inland Revenue know what every single house sold for when the only ones they are interested in is deceased people's estates where capital gains tax is due and Stamp Duty properties which are notified and paid by solicitors to them voluntarily). She then suggested I speak to the main Valuation Office and even then I was referred up to the Manager of that dept to explain where the price info came from to them. Even THEN she could only say that they received the info from all solicitors when properties are sold and said it was data protection against me having the same info. How can other people's info be available to them but not to me? It makes a whole mockery of the data protection laws !

I am going to ask the solicitor who carried out our sale process to confirm that she passes on this info to the Valuation Office but perhaps someone can confirm if this is correct ?

lincroft1710

JWhite wrote: »

Well obviously I am not happy but is it worth appealing again considering they can trot out their own version of the info but any evidence I have is immediately discounted as "cannot compare large properties with small because it depends on the price paid in 1991 (how can I find that out!), yet they have the info.

If you go to a Tribunal, VOA will provide you with the evidence they intend to present, prior to the hearing. You can also ask for relevant sales evidence of dwellings which you believe will support your case.

Also I don't have access to the actual prices any of them paid in 1991 although I know of many in the street same size as ours what they paid in 2000 and working it backwards -61% as suggested on the web, would make them worth approx. £23,000 but again the VOA discounted that as "across borders prices differ" ????

How can you argue with that that, even though I am surrounded by properties much larger than ours all in the same tax band, they will not discuss them !

You can ask them about these at the hearing, although it will be helpful to all parties if you advise the VOA of this before the hearing. As above you can ask for sales evidence.

My only way of comparing like for like is looking at similar properties and what they are selling for and working the price back to 1991 and even then they tell me they don't use the same price calculators but work on solicitors' data, which I don't have access to, so sounds like a waste of time.

See above

Yet I successfully argued my point in my last property and that was on behalf of a complete development of 2 bed terraced OAP bungalows (21 in all) which had been bracketed into the same tax band as all the 3 bed semi houses in the adjoining street which were much larger and the appeal went through and was accepted and they down rated all the development, that was through Birmingham Valuation Office whereas this time it is through Southampton.

It depends on what the evidence is for particular dwellings show in each area. Also some caseworkers are more keen to settle cases without too much effort.

...............

lincroft1710

JWhite wrote: »

By the way when I first spoke to the department which issued the appeal notice, she told me they got their price info from the Inland Revenue. It was only when I challenged this and countered it with "how would the Inland Revenue know what every single house sold for when the only ones they are interested in is deceased people's estates where capital gains tax is due and Stamp Duty properties which are notified and paid by solicitors to them voluntarily). She then suggested I speak to the main Valuation Office and even then I was referred up to the Manager of that dept to explain where the price info came from to them. Even THEN she could only say that they received the info from all solicitors when properties are sold and said it was data protection against me having the same info. How can other people's info be available to them but not to me? It makes a whole mockery of the data protection laws !

The law which forced solicitors to notify the Inland Revenue of property sales was enacted in about 1910, easily predating any "data protection". However the info was supplied on the strict understanding it was not to be disclosed to any third party. Only when CT came into being in 1993, was this rule partially relaxed, when Parliament permitted disclosure of this info by the VOA at the stage of a CT appeal being listed for a Tribunal Hearing.

I am going to ask the solicitor who carried out our sale process to confirm that she passes on this info to the Valuation Office but perhaps someone can confirm if this is correct ?

The info doesn't go direct to the VOA but via the Land Registry (previously it was via the Stamp Office). It was in the form of a copy document, but for some years now it has been automatically downloaded. Your solicitor may not be aware that the VOA receive details of your sale as she informs the LR.

.....................

lincroft1710

gazluv wrote: »

I'm in the process (long and drawn out one at that) of going to my library and searching through micro-film of a local newspaper printed in 1991 which has a property section.
I am looking for any houses sold in this time similar to my parents house.....I have found one which is on an adjacent road and in 1991 was selling at a price which is well within the tax band i am looking to get theirs reduced to. This is going to be part of my evidence at the tribunal hearing.

lincroft1710 after checking with my parents the extension was done in 1994, their tax band increased on 13 Jan 1995.
I have been given a date for the hearing.
If nothing more comes from it, at least I'll have had a day out in Chester.

A lot of this is still not making sense.

Firstly, a band shouldn't be increased on account of improvements made by the current owner after Apr 1993. I don't understand why a Tribunal confirmed this increase.

Secondly, there is a time limit of 6 months for making appeals, which your parents are well outside. Therefore as I previously stated the tribunal would be to determine validity only, it would not be concerned with the band.

Jackiewellman

Hi,

A few weeks ago I challenged our council tax band to try to get it decreased from band D to C, I was told I wasn't allowed (invalidity notice) as i have been in the property more than six months (1985).
I have appealed this decision due to the fact I have only recently found out that I can try to change the band.

The estate I live on has 127 houses, 96% of them are in band C, many much bigger than ours. All the other band D properties are bigger than ours.
As I was checking the banding on our street I clicked on my properties listing, it shows that it was originally banded into C, then two years later it was increased to Band D, I don't remember ever being informed of this change. I believe that my property had been changed due to a small extension at the rear of the property being built in 1987.

A similar property without an extension was put up for sale in 1991 for £58,000 well within the band C banding, i don't believe the extension added to our property should have increased the value of our house by 20% which would take it into the next band.

Should i bother to go to the validity appeal, or does it seem that my application will be upheld as invalid?.

If my appeal gets upheld, how does my case look for getting the band decreased?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

lincroft1710

Jackiewellman wrote: »

Should i bother to go to the validity appeal, or does it seem that my application will be upheld as invalid?.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Your application was clearly invalid. Claiming you have only just found out you could appeal your CT band is about the weakest excuse you could make as CT bills (or accompanying literature) always have this info. The basis of CT and how to apply for a band reduction was well publicised even before CT came into effect and plenty of people appealed their band at that time.

However the VOA will investigate the band, whatever the outcome of the Tribunal, but if they say the band is correct, that is the end of the matter.

I would say your chances of a band reduction are 50/50, so cross your fingers.

Jackiewellman

Thank you, I'll stick with it then.

Just for interest, what's the strongest excuse you know, I promise it wont become my new one. :A

Jackiewellman

@lincroft1710

Reading some of your other posts, you have stated it isn't worth appealing a invalidity notice if you are outside the 6 month time frame as it will end up being investigated anyway.
In that situation, do you still have a chance of presenting your own evidence?.

Thanks.