Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

ortolickus

guppy wrote: »

As I understand it, 1994 was also the bottom of the market in the South East...a seller of a "scruffy" property at that time might well have had to take what they could get for it. Sounds like a bargain anyway, was it a repossession?

Hello guppy - Actually, I would say things were really starting to pick up by Q1 1994 here. The house i sold (to buy the one in my example) made £140K, after i bought it for £100k 18 months previously. Again, improvements only consisted of CH and cosmetic stuff. A very volatile time anyway and a lot of variation between local areas.

You're right about the other place being a reposession, tho' it wasn't in a bad state and no more than a grand or two below market value.

Ultimately, i even if the calculator were 20% out, i'd still be a bit tight for a rebanding, tho' i still suspect 'E' was too high. I'd probably try for a reassessment, but i've added a conservatory recently so i recon that's a non-starter too.

Thanks to you and lincroft for replying.

lincroft1710

Hi Blossom

It was definitely written down, I would try Directgov site which will no doubt have a link to Right to Buy. However in the early days of RTB most councils did not have their own valuers and RTB valuations were carried out by VOA and currently the VOA redetermine all valuations where tenant disagrees with valuation. So they may have done the RTB valuation. They will almost definitely have details of actual sale price.

blossom111_2

Dear Lincroft

Thanks so much for the info. I'll keep you posted how I get on.

SavingTide

lincroft1710 wrote: »

SavingTide - CT law allows existing owners to extend without CT being increased so next door cannot be rebanded until it is sold. Extensions to a dwelling will not always result in increased band. As house prices fell between 91 and 94, a 94 price of £71,500 would suggest a figure well in excess of £68K (Band D min) in 91.

Lincroaft - I am assuming you are saying that I would not have a good case?
But what about the other properties that are similar (or actually marginally larger) to mine, which are Band C - whereas I am Band D.

Are you saying that this does not count? Having read the article by Martin Lewis, I tought this was an important factor - but perhaps this is outweighed by the valuation? In any case, I am still not sure whether to apply for a re-band.
Would appreciate if anyone can advise.
thanks in advance

lincroft1710

Hi Saving Tide

House prices generally seemed to bottom out around 1995 but by 1997/8 in many places were back at 1991 levels. This may not be true of all areas. Only the VOA can say why you are a D and others a C, and I presume they're all semis or all detached. It is definitely worth checking if your band is correct, but you may discover that it is the others that are incorrect. The estate where I live has Band C and D semis, some Cs are larger than Ds as they have extensions of which VOA are unaware (approx 90% of the houses have some form of extension). So hopefully you should at least find out if D is the correct band.

RRatchet

lincroft1710 wrote: »

RRatchet - For CT purposes all property has to be valued assuming it to be in a reasonable state of repair. Disrepair cannot be taken into account. The 2004 valuation would reflect its condition and being part of a farm and is little help in trying to establish value for CT. Calculators are inaccurate.

It is very difficult trying to compare one farmhouse with another. Farmhouses are notoriously complex to value for CT as it will depend on size of farm, farm buildings and whether there are occupational conditions attached. If the house will not be occupied in connection with agricultural land then it will be valued on a straightforward stand alone value as at 1 April 1991.

There is no definition of "uninhabitable" in CT law. In fact the word does not exist. From personal experience (I'm ex VOA, 35 yrs - last 12 spent dealing with CT appeals) if a dwelling has a roof, albeit in poor repair and will be reoccupied it isn't uninhabitable. When a dwelling was being renovated, very rarely was it delisted.

Both my colleagues and myself would be wary about giving anonymous advice in such circumstances, usually an inspection would be necessary before any decision could be made.

I am equally surprised that no CT has been levied even on an empty dwelling. There are certain exemptions from paying CT, but as these are on the charging rather than banding side of CT, I can only advise that you check with the Council as they should have a leaflet detailing these. You can also Google "Council Tax - exempt dwellings"

Thankyou lincroft1710 for your reply; I've now got a better inkling of how the system works; which I didn''t have before, especially after reading the Councils so called explanation leaflets.

Just to give you some background info: There are 2 seperate farms (which border each other (houses are 500yds apart)) of roughly equal size with roughly the same sized house on each and roughly the same sized farm steadings. The deeds for the each of the houses include the land around each. These were tennanted farms and were bought off the Estate ages & ages ago by my husband's grandad. He farmed them both himself until his son (my deceased father-in-law (DFIL)) got married when he gave him one of the farms to carry out his own business. The 2 farms were run separately but with a great deal of cooperation. Then as part of planning for succession grandad gradually gave up control of the his farming business and eventually everthing was given to DFIL. 10 years later grandad died and DFIL continued to farm both farms as one until he died in 2006 (sorry I said 2004 in my original post). From 2006 till now my husband and his mither, as executors, have farmed the whole business and never once has he seen any correspondance/bill from the Council about CT liable or not on the property we are about to inherit, whereas CT bills appeared and were paid on the farmhouse that his mither still lives in (the on that her and her husband (DFIL) were given on marriage). DFIL's estate is almost (so near yet so far) wound up. My husband and I are already farming the one farm we have almost inherited, yet due to the derelict state of the house we are living elsewhere; but we will move in eventually. We are letting most of the land of the other farm from mither and other beneficiaries.

Whilst it is comforting that valuers rarely delist properties, I feel that if they were to visit they would have no choice but to recommend delisting (unless their powers of discretion were enormous). There is no water, no electricity, the bathroom floor has rotted away, with the toilet, bath & basin hanging in mid air held up by their pipes. Several window have fallen out and the rest are rotten. There is at least 2" of pigeon poo on some floors due to broken windows not being repaired. The roof is beyond being in poor repair, water has come through large holes to the ground floor in at least 4 places and rotted out the floors, so much so that we have now removed all of the ground floor (joists and boards). I love wooden floors and would have liked to have kept them but there was nothing left there to repair. I understand/believe you that in CT speak there is no such word as uninhabitable however in the Council housing dept. there is and this house does not meet any of the very basic standards laid out there. We really want to move in but can't due to it's condition as the cottage we are living in is in a serious state of disrepair as well as being severely overcrowded. Our farm is very comparable to that of mither and that of the next door neighbours who are also friends, In a fact they seem to have been built to the same set of plans or what passed as plans in the 1880's. Ours is Band D and both of the others Band C so when we have legal title we should get it down to at least Band C. There is no agricultural occupancy conditions on any of these farms.

In summary the farmhouse has been unnoccupied and untouched 1976 to 2008. No council tax has ever been charged on it. In 2009 we have started to renovate or a more accurate term would be demolish/remove debris from, the house even though we do not yet have legal title. In anticipation of being hammered for council tax I've started trying to find out about it now, without alerting the authorities. As far as I can see our famhouse in an anomaly. Exemptions here are 1st 6 months 100%, 2nd 6 months 50% and thereafter 5%, but they would seem to only apply to my DFIL and his estate, not us. For now I'm going to let sleeping dogs lie. We can't afford to pay council tax on both properties, our income is as low as we qualify for council tax benefit or we will when I can be bothered to apply the form is putting me off.

Thanks

RRatchet

CIS

Any property that is part of an on going probate is exempt from Council tax until probate is granted (this can in theory be indefinite) and then for a maximum of 6 months after the date of probate

lincroft1710

RRatchet - A very illuminating post. I'm guessing that as the house was vacant and rates weren't paid from 76, no one there to pay community charge (poll tax) council just didn't bother when CT came into being.

One thing occurs to me, in the Valuation List the band should appear as D (Comp) which means the dwelling is composite and is occupied in connection with non domestic property i.e. farm. If Comp doesn't appear it has been valued as a stand alone house.

I agree that you should let sleeping dogs lie for the moment.

hcs7dap

My granny lives in a sheltered housing complex. Her accommodation consists of a modest bed/sitting room, separate shower/WC and a separate kitchen.

She has been paying 'band B' council tax to the Borough of Richmond-on-Thames. I think that this is quite alot and am wondering about contacting the VOA regarding re-banding.

However... because the flats within the complex belong to a housing association - they have never been on the market, so finding accurate valuations has proved difficult because there are no similar properties.

Does anyone have any advice or suggestions?

lincroft1710

hcs7dap - if flat is situated in R on T itself, then Band B doesn't sound too outrageous.

Firstly check bands of other bedsits in block - one may have been reduced. Next check bands of other purpose built bedsit/studio flats in area, whether they be HA, local authority or private - find any Band A and it's a good start.

VOA has details of virtually every property sale, but rules of confidentiality only permit disclosure when a valid has been made. You should search archived newspaper ads for 1991 property sales, but remember these will be asking prices not sale prices.