Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

guppy

geoff1057 wrote: »

thanks very much for the advice , i know her house was not brand new when she moved into it, and her friend a few doors away paid a similar price in 1994, maybe a trip to the library and a couple of estate agents might show something , thanks again ........ geoff

If the 1994 sale is of a similar house try using that with the House Price Calculator. Prices fell between 1991-4 but its better than nothing or an even later sale

guppy

Hi Zebedee,

Saw on the Sucesses thread you finally got a reduction, and presumably one for your neighbours too! Congratulations! :T I never heard of such a complicated case...do tell all once you get a chance...especially the bit about having two Tribunals! I still don't understand what happened there!

Anyway, all's well that ends well Nil desperandum indeed!

Brennygran

Zebedeee wrote: »

I don't see why not, square-eyes. It can't do any harm to ask what their evidence is. It's not unknown for them to get it completely wrong, and think that houses that are the same aren't, and vice-versa.

It's quite possible they don't have any actual evidence from 1991 and are extrapolating from a later year. Have you had a trip to the library to see what other houses, not necessarily in your street, but in simillar areas nearby, sold for in 1991? This might confirm your suspicions, or at least give you more to go on.

Hope that helps!

Zebedee

Hi Zebedee
First time I've ever used a forum so if I've got it all wrong...sorry!
I asked our Council for prices of 1991 flats on our estate. Their reply was that they have a duty of confidentiality to the taxpayer set out in s18(1) to s23 of the Commissioners for Revenue & Customs Act 2005. I have replied that I could get info on council tax payers from the electoral roll and lots of sites including Land Registry give prices, so what's so confidential?
Anyone heard of this excuse before and any advise for an OAP? The flat is a tiny studio but in band B. Don't know what you get in band A - a cupboard?

Zebedeee

Hi Brennygran and welcome to the forum!

I haven't heard of anyone getting this information from the Council themselves, but as you say I don't see why it is so confidential. What most people have to do is go to their local library and look up the information in the Property pages of the local newspaper from 1991. The Land Registry don't seem to hold prices on properties before 2000. It's a bit of a slog, but it's worth doing.

Regardless of actual prices, have you done a comparison with the other flats around you to see if you are all banded the same? There shouldn't be any disparity in bands between properties which are the same. You can look up all the bands on the Valuation Office website http://www.voa.gov.uk

It all depends on the prices of properties in your area as to what type of properties go into which bands. For example, you probably wouldn't get even a broom cupboard in band A in Knightsbrige as it would likely have cost more than £40,000 in 1991.

Hope that helps!

Zebedee

guppy

Brennygran wrote: »

Hi Zebedee
First time I've ever used a forum so if I've got it all wrong...sorry!
I asked our Council for prices of 1991 flats on our estate. Their reply was that they have a duty of confidentiality to the taxpayer set out in s18(1) to s23 of the Commissioners for Revenue & Customs Act 2005. I have replied that I could get info on council tax payers from the electoral roll and lots of sites including Land Registry give prices, so what's so confidential?
Anyone heard of this excuse before and any advise for an OAP? The flat is a tiny studio but in band B. Don't know what you get in band A - a cupboard?

Hi Brennygran,

This is pretty standard. Prior to 2000 sale prices were treated as confidential. Having said this, there is nothing to stop the VOA telling you approximate prices and dates, and what street the properties are in. They might not like to do this, but they can and do, do it.

You might be able to get this information by asking to speak to the person that dealt with your case. Stay calm but ask them to explain their decision in more detail for you. Make sure the properties they are comparing to yours are genuinely similar, not posher. Don't be afraid to question this if necessary.

It may be worth asking them the measurements they hold for your studio too, and ask them what size the flats are that they are using in comparison.

As Zebedeee says, prices and bands will vary with location. If its a decent purpose built studio I suppose B could be ok, but if its an old and tatty conversion then it could be way too high.

Good luck!

daveyh_3

I phoned the VOA for the first claim. They listened and, I thought, took down all the details. Just short of a month I got an answer that the banding stands. They also said I had no right of appeal.

I phoned a named contact on the letter from VOA. Explained what had been written, that they had based it on the fact that I had claimed my neighbours house is exactly the same build/style, but with more land and is on a lower Banding than mine.

I claimed that the person taking the details obviously hadnt listened, or understood, what I had said prior to adding that the neighbours is on a lower band (B). The fact that my house was valued in September 1991, and its value was £500, below the maximum of B Band. Yet I am in C Band.

They told me to apply again and ask for a "Second Review". I have sent as much evidence as I can, including a copy of the valuation report from 1991 showing the value. Any idea if this has worked for anyone else? Any idea of what I should expect?

vivatifosi

Zebedee,

Congratulations!!!!!!! Just heard the news! As Guppy says, tell us more. And any news from Mark W?

vivatifosi

Hi Brennygran and square-eyes,

You should be able to get some information regarding pricing in 1991 from the VOA.

If they then come back to you saying that the information is confidential, then remind them of the Parliamentary Ombudsman's findings in case A.39/99. In that case, the VOA had refused to give information on the 1991 sales values stating that it was confidential. The Ombudsman asked the VOA to write to the parties who owned the houses that were bought in 1991 (they still lived there) and ask for permission to share the data. The homeowners did (and in your case they could be your neighbours/friends) and the VOA was forced to share.

You can read the adjudication here:

http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/improving_services/selected_cases/AOI/aoi9910/8915-a39.html

Such cases were even referred to in Parliament as a reason for introducing the Freedom of Information Act.

Since the introduction of the Freedom of Information Act, this rule of disclosure has been tested further. In October 2006, the Information Commissioner was asked to rule on a similar case. Again, the VOA was asked to contact the original homeowners for permission to use their pricing data. The Information Commissioner upheld the VOA's right to keep information private, but ONLY WHERE THE IDENTITY OF THE OWNER COULD BE REVEALED - having read the notice in this case my understanding is that the VOA should give you pricing details in some depth, but that may not involve house numbers etc where that can be traced back to a person, without that person giving their consent.

The Information Commissioner's case can be found here:
http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/decisionnotices/2006/decision_notice_fs50090387.pdf


Hope that helps in terms of using their information back against them! Good luck!

Daisy_Bell

What you can expect Davey, is a long, long wait! I have been waiting months for my 'Second Review' which I think will (when it finally comes - if it comes at all) will just be more of the same! I can't actually prove my house was valued below £68,000 in 1991, as there doesn't seem to have been any sales in our road for that year. but I have sent photographs of the houses (like mine) and ones of other, far larger, properties in the street to the VOA protesting that we are all in the same band and shouldn't be. That's the problem with the way modern estates are these days. There are so many properties of different sizes and designs built in the same roads and the VOA just seem to put a 'Blanket' band on them all! :mad: As I have written previously on this Forum, I have pretty well given up. It's about time the whole scandal of Council Tax generally was re-thought! And I don't think a 'Local Tax' is the answer either, as it would involve yet another a means-tested tax. I honestly think the old 'Poll Tax' was a fairer way of raising revenue, as then every working person would pay their fair share. The only problem with the Poll Tax was that it was going to be imposed on everyone, whether they were working or not. All it needed was a bit of re-adjustment - not the knee-jerk reaction we got, which was unfair to everyone!

Grianne

Grianne wrote: »

I appealed to my local VO and got the 'Invalid proposal' letter, but also another letter with it saying they would review it anyway. All im asking for is a review into my banding anyway, so why bother with the invalid proposal letter.

It also states that this could go to a tribunal, but this is ONLY to deal with the validity of the proposal and NOT the actual banding.

I find this all rather confusing, or maybe im being dumb!

Further to my post in August, I have been waiting to hear the tribunal date or see what else they say. Today I received a letter from the VO stating I was right and that my banding has been changed from E to D, with effect from April 1993 :T. As we have been in the property the entire time, I will just have to wait and see what we eventually get refunded.

Thanks Martin and others who post in the thread for you advice! xx