Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

guppy

Grianne wrote: »

I appealed to my local VO and got the 'Invalid proposal' letter, but also another letter with it saying they would review it anyway. All im asking for is a review into my banding anyway, so why bother with the invalid proposal letter.

It also states that this could go to a tribunal, but this is ONLY to deal with the validity of the proposal and NOT the actual banding.

I find this all rather confusing, or maybe im being dumb!

Don't worry, you're not being dumb. Have a look at my post a couple of pages back here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=5899379#post5899379 if you need more help, there is loads more info on this thread

grace21

guppy wrote: »

Hi Grace,

I can't think of any more official routes that haven't already been discussed...the LGO sounds useless. I would try writing to the VOA's head office to claim compensation, someone on the successes board said the VOA "leaned" on the council to pay out in their case.

This is maybe a long shot but how about sending another complaint together with a list of councils that do refund the money like they're supposed to? I'm not sure your council has any shame, but could this shame them in to action? Or maybe even see if you can get your local paper interested...council tax seems to be big news at the moment.

Send it to the Chief of your council, your elected Councillor, the Ombudsman and anyone else relevant asking why you're being penalised for living in your area. It won't hurt to remind them its your money.

The successes board would be a good place to start making up a list, or you could just phone and ask neighbouring councils their policy. They needn't know why you are asking etc.

I guess it depends how far you are prepared to go. I can't see you'd have anything to lose by putting in a small claim with the county court either...the council will know you're serious and may not even bother defending it.

The court can consider the legal arguments too. The fact virtually all other councils pay out would surely get the judge thinking...or am I too optimistic?

Good luck,

Guppy

Thanks Guppy for your useful suggestions, I'm undecided in whether to waste even more time, I need to gather my thoughts!!

I have to say that when I picture that smug g*t in the council getting the upper hand it makes my blood boil, so who knows I may just fire off a final round of letters before giving up!!!

Grace

guppy

vivatifosi wrote: »

It is my personal belief having done this research, and I would really like to hear the opinions of others, that people receiving Invalidity Tribunal notices would have a better chance of winning (ie receiving a right to be heard at a full tribunal) if, upon receipt of their notice, they focused on the issues which the IT can look at.

Personally, I completely agree with this. Plus if people appeal in the first instance on the grounds of a recent VT decision or because of changes in the area then they might avoid the invalidity process altogether.

If someone was determined to get a case heard by a Tribunal, then I think most people could find something that had changed since 1993, e.g. new flats, road layouts etc.

It might be impossible to prove the changes had affected value very much, but if someone strongly believed their band was wrong anyway, the VOA would have to prove the existing band was correct to a Tribunal.

I don't think going to a Tribunal is necessarily an easier option though, the person appealing has to make their case and provide their own evidence.

Having said that, I believe the threat of Tribunal does put more pressure on the VOA too. They may prefer to give the benefit of the doubt rather than risk losing at VT in borderline cases.

Be interesting to know how many people win on the grounds of changes in the area and if anyone actually gets their band reduced to 1993 as a result. I seem to remember on Martin's orginal program, the VOA reduced some bands to 1993, but wouldn't accept this was to do with a recently built factory, anyone else remember that bit?

brightonbuoy

grace21 wrote: »

Hi Brightonbuoy,

That explains the smug letter I recieved from the council today,stating that they had been investigated by the LGO and the outcome was no maladministration by the council.:mad:

The LGO has advised that I can pursue a complaint to the VOA details on their website: www.voa.gov.uk
OR
Complain to the Parliamentry and Health Ombudsman via your MP about the VOA.For more information look up their website:www.ombudsman.org.uk.
OR
Consider taking proceedings in County Court against both the Council and the VOA.

I've noticed that in a recent thread someone esle was finding the same problem and has just succeeded in getting them to acknowledge their mistake.

Has any of the more experienced members of this forum got any suggestions what I should do next??

Grace

Hi Grace

Don't give up yet. I have to wait until I get a reply from the Chief Executive of the VOA. The local office turned me down saying it is the Council's problem...which actually it is.

I got the same smug letter and it made my blood boil. BUT, I also have some legal friends. I suggested a solution to them and they think I will win in Court. I can't say yet what it is because the smug g*t on the Council may look at this forum. BUT if I get rejected by the CEO of the VOA, I will start Court proceedgs after I return from holiday in mid Sept.

Hang in there.

vivatifosi

Wow Brightonbuoy,

That sounds really intriguing! Can't wait to hear further down the line what you are up to.

vivatifosi

guppy wrote: »

Be interesting to know how many people win on the grounds of changes in the area and if anyone actually gets their band reduced to 1993 as a result. I seem to remember on Martin's orginal program, the VOA reduced some bands to 1993, but wouldn't accept this was to do with a recently built factory, anyone else remember that bit?

Hi guppy,

Have had a look at this too. Quick look at 30 tribunals on that basis. Some of this data was from invalidity tribunals, so I can only show the negatives from those, not the positives (as they would then need to go on to full tribunal to be successful)

Here are some examples of tribunals that have been won on the grounds of change in the area:
* Change in activity of a local public house increasing noise levels
* Change in factory activity to 24 hour working
* Building of a nearby retail park
* Mosque development - noise and traffic
* Dilapidation of a nearby college
There are also some that failed, but were deemed as at the top of their band anyway. Had the appellant been closer to the dividing line between the bands, they could have won:
* Increased development at local football ground
* Extension to neighbouring house
* Loss of sea views following erection of block of flats in line of view

The ones that were less successful (excluding those that just failed to show the value had fallen enough) tended to fall into five groups:
1. The issue involved people rather than buildings. Eg anti social issues. These generally change over a longer period of time, or are seen as likely to change as soon as a person moves on.
2. Insubstantial: their garage is poorly maintained, they keep a tractor in their front garden, they've put speed bumps in my road...
3. Temporary nature: eg disturbance from construction of a new building.
4. The issue has been there for a long time: eg pre-existing land contamination, flooding, television masts etc that would have been there when the purchaser bought.
5. Although there was an issue, it was not near enough to affect the property in question.

Seemed at full tribunal people had a good chance of winning on the ground of material reduction in the local area providing they had reasonable evidence (as with any tribunal). There were slightly more losers than winners, but I think these odds would have been more favourable if some of those appealing were closer to the boundary between two bands. Banding reduction back to when the issue became a nuisance, rather than when CT came in.

Perhaps in the next few months we will see people whose homes have been affected by flooding for the first time appealing on this basis.

Rooster_Booster_2

Grace,

Sorry for the delay in this reply.

If I understand you correctly your council are refusing to compensate you for the period 1993 - 2000. Stating the "Limitations Act."
As they did with me!

I just stated that I believe that the Statute did not apply (section 32) and if not compensated for this period I would be claiming the amount owed through the Small claims court.

Which you can do online at a cost from £70.00. Depending on claim value.
Which I was prepared to do.

I would have given the details of the court date to the local rag to see if they would use also.

The fact that most councils seem to compesate for this period is probably enough evidence if any you require.

Worth a letter stating your intensions.

Hope that helps.

Rooster

8harlosh8

I have just completed a self build and was wondering how i go about getting my house put into its 1991 Band or will it be as usual and this is an exemption to make us pay through the nose even more!!!

Zebedeee

Do any of you good folks out there know if it is possible to re-do an appeal within the six months allowed for a valid appeal? I ask because neighbours of ours have had their band increased, they appealed and were rejected by the VOA. They sent a listing officer round who told them they had no chance of winning and basically bullied them into withdrawing their appeal. He had the withdrawal form with him and got them to sign it then and there. It sounds really dodgy to me. I would have thought that as it was done in their home anyway it may have a cooling-off period. If not, can you re-do an appeal if you are still within the six months period?

Zebedee

abbottw_2

I would like to thank you all for your help, as if it was not for this site there is no way I would have attemped to challenge my Banding (or even check to see if I was in the same band as my neighbours) I got a phone call yesterday on my answerphone (and I am not wiping it until I get my letter) to say I have been succesful and my Band will be reduced from D to C as in line will everyone else in my street. The message said that a letter was in the post (like we haven't heard that from the Valuation Office before).

I started my request to be rebanded in Feb, and made plenty of phone calls and sent loads of letters as the person I wanted to talk to was never in or always in another office??? I contact the estate agent that I brought my house from and he gave me lots of information about house prices in my area in 1991, went to the Library and tralled througth the micro films, also used lots of information after reading the posts on this site.

Can someone let me know now how I go about getting a refund - calculating how much the council owe me and what I should write in the letter to them as I am getting a bit worried after reading the last few posts.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH X