Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

grace21

Hi Vivatifosi,
Thanks for the information about LGO I'm sure I've read somwhere in this thread that in the VOA's manual it states that they have a duty of care/responsibility when rebanding a house to look at similar dwellings in the immediate area.
Three of my neighbours had had their house rebanded several years ago.There are 6 houses in a row all identical.

Do you think I should ask them to investigate both the council and the VOA?

Grace

moped_mark

Hi
I’ve just read the article on the CTax banding and was wondering if someone could check the details for me.
In 1991 the house was given a B banding.
My neighbours also have B banding.
My neighbour sold their house for £77,000 in 2003.
Using the Nationwide estimator, it house would have been worth just £32,855 in 1991, which is under the £40,001 band B threshold.
I’m just wondering if it’s all alright due to both of my neighbours having the same banding as my house.
I’d appreciate any advice on this.
Thanks.

vivatifosi

Hi Grace,

I don't think that the Local Government Ombudsman will investigate the VOA - I can't see it listed in its 'How do I complain' leaflet in terms of government bodies you can take action against. Central Government issues appear to be investigated by the Parliamentary Ombudsman, though I have no idea whether they would investigate the VOA either.

In my dealings with the Local Government Ombudsman it seemed to be about processes and their making unfair decisions, but you may find you don't have a case against the local government if they are just carrying out what the VOA has laid down.

I'm thinking laterally here, as my case was nothing to do with Council Tax. However the sort of thing that they may be able to investigate would be: they take the wrong amount of money, treat you inconsistently with their written rules on council tax, etc. I wonder if they may also be able to help where people are getting inconsistent replies in terms of statutes and interest if the councils cannot show that their actions are consistent to their own policies?

I had to keep written evidence of all my dealings with the council (including rough transcripts of phone calls and reference numbers for calls) and they wouldn't follow up until I had been complaining for six months.

guppy

vivatifosi wrote: »

Interesting point Guppy. I know people have a right of appeal if the banding increases, but does the VOA do this as the same time as moving as they would for material increases? There is mention of mistakes on the ODPM website, but not the process for change, and when you search the Council Tax Manual, no mention is made of the word mistake at all. I'm confused now...

If the band is plain wrong, it can be increased at any time. There's a strong presumption against doing this though.

If a property is improved, the improvements can't be taken in to account until its sold. Also, if the band was previously reduced in error as a result of a formal appeal/tribunal, it can't be changed either until its been improved and sold.

Have a look at this bit of the VOA's Manual:

http://www.voa.gov.uk/instructions/chapters/council_tax/council_tax_man_s2/Frame.htm

and:

http://www.voa.gov.uk/instructions/chapters/council_tax/council_tax_man_s2/zo-ct-man-s2-app2.34.htm#TopOfPage

Hope that makes sense

vivatifosi

Many thanks Guppy, I have the PDF manual and it doesn't have all of those appendices. Very helpful.

Some questions for everyone...

My neighbours have heard about my successful tribunal and want to do the same.

1. Can everyone with an identical property model to mine appeal, or do the houses have to be priced the same? Different incentives, garages, p-exes, legal fees paid etc mean the prices were different even if the houses were identical. The decision potentially affects 19 properties.

2. Are there any precedents in terms of whether theirs is likely to be a bulk or individual appeals?

3. When does the six month time limit that they have to appeal kick in? Is it six months from the date of a successful tribunal?

Thanks everyone!

guppy

Hi Vivatifosi,

1. Ultimately its up to the VOA/VT to decide if an appeal is valid, but I'd think at least all the identical houses could appeal off the back of your case. The VOA should have considered reducing them already following the Tribunal's decision. Anyone else on the estate that could demonstrate the relevance of the decision might be able to appeal too...e.g. smaller/cheaper houses that are in higher bands.

2. Each taxpayer has to appeal individually, though once/if the VOA accept the bands are wrong, they should reduce all similar houses. Further appeals might be factor in encouraging them. Multiple appeals would probably be considered at the same time by the VO and VT if it came to it.

3. I believe its six months from the decision date, as opposed to the tribunal date.

guppy

Hi moped_mark,

The house price calculators don't prove much (1991 is a long time ago) and the VOA don't give them much weight.

The best person to judge if you are in the wrong band is you. You don't need be a surveyor. If you're not convinced you probably won't convince the VOA. Have a look at the bandings in your area and decide if you think your band looks wrong in comparison.

Its probably fair to say that if your band is obviously inconsistent compared to similar houses nearby you have a much better chance of a rebanding. If every house in the street is banded the same, it will take a small revolution to get them all reduced.

You don't need to do any research to start the process; you can simply pick up the phone. But don't be too surprised if a rejection letter follows.

If that happens but you still feel strongly about it, then you have to take things to the next level, so to speak. The bad news is this involves some effort as all the regulars on this thread will tell you...1500 posts so far and still not everyone has succeeded.

This one makes for a good place to start:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=4555455#post4555455

Sorry if this is a bit frustrating...but its not half as frustrating as council tax!

08689

Maisie wrote: »

There have been a few instances in previous posts where bands have been increased. ie A poster had been trying to get a lower rebanding and the voa raised the neighbour's banding to equalise them!

In my own case some identical houses are in a lower banding and voa tell me their banding is wrong and under investigation but they are unable to increase their banding until the house is sold or a change of ownership.

I pointed out to them that when two of the houses were sold the band wasn't changed and one house had an extension doubling the size.

There was no reply to that.

Maisie

Im in a similar position to yourself. I have identified 9 identical homes in a lower band and a further 8 which I found had been sold on since extensions whose bandings had remained unchanged.

The VOA are sure mine is correct, but by doing so they are acknowledging errors both in 1991 and continuously over subsequent years. These points I have now raised with my local MP in order for an investigation to be conducted into what appears to be an entirely "self governed tax dept" from whom there is no right to challange.

vivatifosi

Further to Grace's question as to who you complain to about the VOA, I have done some digging on the Parliamentary Ombudsman website and they have investigated the VOA in the past. Here is a specific link:

http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/improving_services/selected_cases/AOI/aoi9910/8915-a39.html

In this case the Complainant objected that the VOA would not release information pertaining to previous house sales as it was confidential. A compromise was eventually found where the VOA wrote to the original owners and asked if they would agree to their sales price details being divulged. The case was partially upheld.

Its a bit long-winded, but I wondered if it may help some people who are in the same situation.

bantams_2

Just been informed on Friday after protracted discussion that we are being reduced from Band "F" to Band "E". As we have been in the house since 1992 this will mean a refund from 1993 to now. We are in Leeds so the difference between the bands in the year 2007 to 2008 alone is £260!!!

Some advice now:

Unless you fall within the strict criteria posted on VOA's website for appealing, it's a waste of time trying this route. You simply need to get in touch with your local Valuation Office and ask them to review your banding. You MUST have good grounds for a review & be able to back it up with documentary evidence, the best proof is to be able to accurately calculate the price of your house in 1991. There are various House Price Calculators' mentioned elsewhere in the thread, use these. If you moved in after 1993, you might still have contact details of the previous owner, ask them if they have any helpful information. They may be rewarded with a rebate themselves if you are successful!! Do you still have the original estate agent's blurb for the house when you bought it or your solicitor's letters which might mention the price paid.

MOST IMPORTANT is to STICK to the facts, the Valuation Officers are only interested in solid relevant evidence!

Even if you check your banding and find everyone else near you is the same, it doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. Check adjoining streets. The system used at the time was far from perfect. In some areas, they used young people straight out of college, without any experience, to calculate house price banding. Therefore, it's quite possible there are whole streets out there in UK PLC that are wrongly banded.

Finally, I hope this helps someone else & I send a BIG thanks to Martin for publicising this, I would have never even considered appealing simply because I didn't know the process even existed. Keep up the good work!!

Steve