Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

Maisie

Zebedeee wrote: »

guppy, I am really interested in what you say here - it could be just what I need! All the houses the same as mine in my locality are in the band lower than mine. After much discussion the VOA are still sticking to their argument that my banding is correct and the others were 'just lucky'! I have just recieved my date for a tribunal and I'm thinking that what you say could help me here.

Is there anywhere I can find it written about the 'tone of the list' so that I could show it to the VTS to help my case? Is there a statute I can quote?

Thanks for your help and advice on this board.

Zebedee. Look at page 29 giggler's post #1129 voa..../instructions (this thread.)
There's a lot of information on there. Some might help you.

Guppy's post is very interesting. I'm in a similar position to yours although I haven't got as far as a tribunal.

Good luck.

Maisie

mags51

Hope someone maybe able to give me some advice! I have written to the valueation office and have been tolds that I have no case to answer becasue the other properties I quoted were either agricultural or had internal walls of inferior construction. They also tell me that in 1991 my house sold foe a sum in excess of 65,000 I thought that value and selling price were different?, I live in a 2 up 2 down cottage and yet am in the same band as my neighbour in a modern 3 bed bungalow with conservatory, The house before last that I owned is also in band E and yet has 4 bedrooms and office + 3/4 acre plot does anyone know if there is any point in trying again?

maggie

Zebedeee

mags51 wrote: »

Hope someone maybe able to give me some advice! I have written to the valueation office and have been tolds that I have no case to answer becasue the other properties I quoted were either agricultural or had internal walls of inferior construction. They also tell me that in 1991 my house sold foe a sum in excess of 65,000 I thought that value and selling price were different?, I live in a 2 up 2 down cottage and yet am in the same band as my neighbour in a modern 3 bed bungalow with conservatory, The house before last that I owned is also in band E and yet has 4 bedrooms and office + 3/4 acre plot does anyone know if there is any point in trying again?

maggie

Mark, I'm no expert here, but if it is correct that your house sold for a sum which would put you in the higher band then that is going to be difficult to dispute. Can you find out whether this is true, perhaps by looking at local property pages of newspapers from 1991 (your local library should keep an archive)?

Its also possible that factors other than the size of a property/plot can have a bearing on the value eg. if yours is a 'cutesy cottage' in comparison with a boring-looking modern bungalow it could still have an equal or higher value.

If, bearing these factors in mind, the banding still seems unreasonable to you (and not just that you would like to be paying less;) ) then it may well be worth you having another go. Perhaps someone else on here might have a better idea?

HTH

Zebedee

Daisy_Bell

Hi Folks,
I just thought I'd tell you my experiences so far in challenging my Council Tax Band on the grounds that it was incorrectly applied in the first place, as most of my neighbouring properties have four bedrooms and mine only has three. The estate was built with a mixture of both 3 and 4 bedrooms. There was a 'Blanket' Valuation put on them all in 1993. I've gone through all the correct channels, although I was told at the beginning that my Band could go up as well as down. I continued on with it and was told by the Valuation Office that they didn't agree with my claim and I had to fill out a 'Appeal Against Notice Of Invalid Proposal' and send it back to them. Thereby going ahead to a Tribunal. I got a letter today saying they still considered my proposal invalid and wanting me to withdraw it, saying that they would investigate my claim whether I went to the Tribunal or not, as this was the law when a claim was made. I have collected a lot of evidence to support my claim, together with photographs, but when I telephoned them today about their letter, they said I would not be able to present this evidence or say anything at the Tribunal to support my claim as to why I believe the banding is wrong. All they would be interested in is the fact that I am 'Out of time' with my application, as this is the only grounds I have for my Appeal. I do not fall into any of the other rules for Appealing. "Not knowing that I should have appealed within six months of the original valuation is not good enough" was what I was told. We have been in the property for 24 years and genuinely thought that the other properties in the area would be banded along the lines of original criteria; number of bedrooms, garages, etc. We honestly thought that the 4 bedroomed proprties, 2 garages, etc. would be a higher band than the 3 bed ones and didn't know we could check on this. (Anyway, the Council Tax charges then were a darned site less than they are now!) Anyway, I have told them that I am going ahead with the Tribunal (not to do so would look as if I no longer had any faith in my claim) and I was told to send the evidwence I have collected to the Valuation Office, who will "In due course" check my claim further. This I have done today, retaining copies for myself. I don't understand how a hearing at a Tribunal can result in some properties having their band increased, if the only evidence they are allowed to hear is why a claimant like myself is 'Out of Time'! This would seem to be contradictory! What's the point of tribunals if they are not allowed to hear all the grounds for the Appeal? I was told by the person I spoke to at the Valuation office that Tribunals very seldom go against the findings of their Office! Are they just trying to scare me into dropping the whole thing?

Zebedeee

Daisy Bell,
A very simillar thing happened to me and I too thought that the tribunal was to appeal the banding whereas in fact it is to appeal the right to have an appeal! Aaargh! Unless you can honestly say that you have not lived in the property for more than 6 months, or not been the council tax payer for more than six months you cannot get anywhere with this one.

However, do not give up yet! The VOA still have a duty to maintain their list fair and accurate and if you write to them again, reminding them of this duty they may just take another look at it. Submit your evidence to them, and more if you can find it. And yes, they are hoping you are going to give up.

I actually rang up the phone number on the Tribunal Service letter and asked to speak to someone who deals with the appeals and I got someone who was really helpful and explained the system. He explained that if you can find another case in your area who are in a simillar situation to you, who have had an appeal go in their favour, you can apply it to your own situation and say 'this is like mine, I want another shot at it, I demand an appeal' or words to that effect. You can find information about other tribunals and their outcomes on the Tribunal Service website http://www.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/listings-decisions/index.html

It worked for us, we have a hearing coming up soon. I hope you get another go at it!

HTH,

Zebedee

slpierce

Hello all

I'm after some advice on challenging my council tax band, as it stands i have gone through the normal channels with my local council, but they regected my appeal.

I did some research before my appeal, and find it incomprehensible that they can regect it, to say i`m annoyed is an understatement.

They also told me that because i didn't claim within 6 months of moving house, i cannot take it any further, this is where i need the advice, is this true, is there no other way i can continue this?

I will leave some info below, if someone would be kind enough to give an opinion on the facts of my appeal i would be grateful...

Current band D 68000 - 88000 pounds

Bought house brand new in august 1999 priced 78000 pounds, no improvements done to property.

Now correct me if i`m wrong, but the council are saying my house was worth between 68000 and 88000 pounds in 1991?

I know there was a dip in house prices from around 1990 - 1995, but even taking that into consideration, i cannot believe what there saying my house was worth in 1991.

In fact all the calculators i have used online put it between 55000 and 63000 in 1991 well withing band C

Thanks in advance

Shaun


ps

I live in a mid sized cul-de-sac, my house is the smallest on it, when new it was 20000 pounds less than some other houses on the estate, but while checking on the VOA website, all the houses on the estate are in bad D, makes no sense at all to me....

stphnstevey

Zebedeee wrote: »

Daisy Bell,
A very simillar thing happened to me and I too thought that the tribunal was to appeal the banding whereas in fact it is to appeal the right to have an appeal! Aaargh! Unless you can honestly say that you have not lived in the property for more than 6 months, or not been the council tax payer for more than six months you cannot get anywhere with this one.

However, do not give up yet! The VOA still have a duty to maintain their list fair and accurate and if you write to them again, reminding them of this duty they may just take another look at it. Submit your evidence to them, and more if you can find it. And yes, they are hoping you are going to give up.

I actually rang up the phone number on the Tribunal Service letter and asked to speak to someone who deals with the appeals and I got someone who was really helpful and explained the system. He explained that if you can find another case in your area who are in a simillar situation to you, who have had an appeal go in their favour, you can apply it to your own situation and say 'this is like mine, I want another shot at it, I demand an appeal' or words to that effect. You can find information about other tribunals and their outcomes on the Tribunal Service website http://www.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/listings-decisions/index.html

It worked for us, we have a hearing coming up soon. I hope you get another go at it!

HTH,

Zebedee

It would be very interesting to know how other people get on with these 'hearings'. I have one coming up. Are you expected to attend?

I have only been in the property 2 months when I appealed, so they can't get tme with the 6 month rule!!:p

From looking at the
http://www.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/listings-decisions/index.html

I note these comments for the MAJORITY of the decisions in my area:

"Regulations give valuation tribunals the power to dismiss appeals if certain parties fail to appear. As the relevant parties did not attend the hearing, the tribunal dismissed this appeal"

Also, even when you do turn up, this can happen:
Under the provisions of The Council Tax (Alteration of Lists and Appeals) Regulations 1993 SI 290 Regulation 5 (5) a proposal must be made within six months of becoming the Taxpayer - a fact that Mr X accepted. This regulation was mandatory and neither the Listing Officer nor the Tribunal had any discretion in the matter. However, the Listing Officer was under a statutory duty to maintain a correct Valuation List and the banding of the subject property had been checked.

The Tribunal was concerned solely with the validity of the proposal and not the actual banding of the appeal property. It was satisfied that Mr X's proposal had been correctly treated as Invalid and the appeal was therefore dismissed.

From reading their leaflet it seems you have to write to them to let them know you won't be there at the hearing or they can automatically dismiss your case. You can ask for your case to be heard in writing (but as my written english is so bad - I had better turn up!)

Zebedeee

stphnstevey wrote: »

It would be very interesting to know how other people get on with these 'hearings'. I have one coming up. Are you expected to attend?

I have only been in the property 2 months when I appealed, so they can't get tme with the 6 month rule!!:p

From looking at the
http://www.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/listings-decisions/index.html

I note these comments for the MAJORITY of the decisions in my area:

"Regulations give valuation tribunals the power to dismiss appeals if certain parties fail to appear. As the relevant parties did not attend the hearing, the tribunal dismissed this appeal"

Also, even when you do turn up, this can happen:
Under the provisions of The Council Tax (Alteration of Lists and Appeals) Regulations 1993 SI 290 Regulation 5 (5) a proposal must be made within six months of becoming the Taxpayer - a fact that Mr X accepted. This regulation was mandatory and neither the Listing Officer nor the Tribunal had any discretion in the matter. However, the Listing Officer was under a statutory duty to maintain a correct Valuation List and the banding of the subject property had been checked.

The Tribunal was concerned solely with the validity of the proposal and not the actual banding of the appeal property. It was satisfied that Mr X's proposal had been correctly treated as Invalid and the appeal was therefore dismissed.

From reading their leaflet it seems you have to write to them to let them know you won't be there at the hearing or they can automatically dismiss your case. You can ask for your case to be heard in writing (but as my written english is so bad - I had better turn up!)

Well said! It also seems that the VOA very often (although not always) win. I get the feeling that if they think they may not win they decide at the last minute to drop it, so you win. A few people on here have indicated that at the last minute the VOA dropped out. In fact, although I have asked on here several times, only once has anyone come forward to say their hearing went ahead. As it happens, they won. Here's hoping for us!

guppy

mags51 wrote: »

They also tell me that in 1991 my house sold foe a sum in excess of 65,000 I thought that value and selling price were different?, I live in a 2 up 2 down cottage and yet am in the same band as my neighbour in a modern 3 bed bungalow with conservatory, The house before last that I owned is also in band E and yet has 4 bedrooms and office + 3/4 acre plot does anyone know if there is any point in trying again?

maggie

Hello,

I think you're going to have difficult time getting this one changed. Council Tax is based on market value. If the "value" and the selling price are different it usually means someone got ripped off. Its almost impossible to prove someone "overpaid" for something voluntarily.

There's nothing to stop you going back to the VOA for more information though if you've doubts.

guppy

slpierce wrote: »

Hello all

I'm after some advice on challenging my council tax band, as it stands i have gone through the normal channels with my local council, but they regected my appeal.

I did some research before my appeal, and find it incomprehensible that they can regect it, to say i`m annoyed is an understatement.

They also told me that because i didn't claim within 6 months of moving house, i cannot take it any further, this is where i need the advice, is this true, is there no other way i can continue this?

I will leave some info below, if someone would be kind enough to give an opinion on the facts of my appeal i would be grateful...

Current band D 68000 - 88000 pounds

Bought house brand new in august 1999 priced 78000 pounds, no improvements done to property.

Now correct me if i`m wrong, but the council are saying my house was worth between 68000 and 88000 pounds in 1991?

I know there was a dip in house prices from around 1990 - 1995, but even taking that into consideration, i cannot believe what there saying my house was worth in 1991.

In fact all the calculators i have used online put it between 55000 and 63000 in 1991 well withing band C

Thanks in advance

Shaun


ps

I live in a mid sized cul-de-sac, my house is the smallest on it, when new it was 20000 pounds less than some other houses on the estate, but while checking on the VOA website, all the houses on the estate are in bad D, makes no sense at all to me....

You might not be able to take it further in terms of going to a tribunal but that doesn't mean all is lost. You can always go back to the VOA and question their decision, ask for a second opinion or send new evidence to them.

The price in 1999 probably won't be enough on its own though The house price calculators are only a guide and a sale in 1999 doesn't really prove anything by itself.

It might be worth checking that the VO are aware your house is smaller than the others. Are there identical houses to yours elsewhere on the estate? Could they be banded lower?

Its difficult valuing a house at a time before its built. You could ask the VO what 1991 evidence they've used. They won't give you exact addresses, but you could ask them which streets. If those places are more expensive could question that.

There's loads more info further back on this thread too.

Good luck.