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Man U £100M operating profit, Overall Loss £80M
Comments
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Most companies run with a constant level of debt. I'm not sure why people think football companies would be any different.
Yes, but Man Utd's debt is 4x their annual turnover. Ok, I accept that Man Utd's debt is the purchase of the club, but what happens if, for example, Man U are no longer able to compete in the top 4? With the levels of debt and the inability to compete in the transfer market with Man C and Chelsea would push Utd firmly outside the top 2. Another club bought by someone with extreme wealth would push them further down. Should this happen then the value of the club would decrease...Not too dissimilar to the Liverpool situation...0 -
lemonjelly wrote: »Thing is, not many learned from the ITVdigital fiasco did they?
True. Which is perhaps why it cannot be discounted as a possibility.
And the order of magnitude, if it did happen, would carry greater shockwaves.Act in haste, repent at leisure.
dunstonh wrote:Its a serious financial transaction and one of the biggest things you will ever buy. So, stop treating it like buying an ipod.0 -
I thought you hated West Brom.
I think most are to be honest, Liverpool are turning a profit (it the holding Co which it the problem, that is why they cant get docked points. The club are not insolvent, just the parent company). It is just how some have done buyouts.
It looks to be a hard thing to fund & compete unless you are funding it yourself.
Unfortunately, the latest news is that Liverpool may get docked 9 points if the club falls into the hands of RBS. Parallels have been drawn to the West Ham scenario where the parent company fell into administration. The difference between that and Kop Holdings is that LFC is Kop Holdings only interest. The Icelandic parent company of West Ham had other interests.
It's probably explained better in this link:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gI0Dd0a092N3es2Z5ynVGlaM5lcQ?docId=N0152561286480357178A0 -
Most companies run with a constant level of debt. I'm not sure why people think football companies would be any different.
Most company's have share capital as well United have none, the SC was simply transferred into debt. The debt position of United was not created by unsustainable borrowing that is often implied, in fact they have a good business model. Despite having one of the best income streams in world football the average spent on player since 1992 is only £7 million a season, compare to City £22m, Chelsea £20m, Spurs £10m and Liverpool £10m. If you bring that more up to date from 2003 we have United £6m with City at £45m, Chelsea £39m, Spurs £15m, Liverpool £12m and even Stoke have spent similar to United £5m.
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
I thought you hated West Brom.
I think most are to be honest, Liverpool are turning a profit (it the holding Co which it the problem, that is why they cant get docked points. The club are not insolvent, just the parent company). It is just how some have done buyouts.
It looks to be a hard thing to fund & compete unless you are funding it yourself.
The holding company thing is just a fig leaf though, it doesn't make a club solvent and everyone including the EPL know it. They have made an exception for Liverpool as they don't want a 'big club' in trouble as it will damage the league as a whole (eg increase funding costs for all clubs).
Imagine a situation where I have a holding company which owns 100% of shares in a football club and has a load of debt secured against those shares and the income generated by them. If the holding company can't pay the debts then the bank will repossess the shares (keeping it simple) and put the club it now owns into administration.
Liverpool's structure is basically the same as Portsmouth's was - Portsmouth was owned by a holding company based in the British Virgin Islands, Liverpool is owned by Kop Football Holdings based in Britain.0 -
I thought you hated West Brom.
I think most are to be honest, Liverpool are turning a profit (it the holding Co which it the problem, that is why they cant get docked points. The club are not insolvent, just the parent company). It is just how some have done buyouts.
It looks to be a hard thing to fund & compete unless you are funding it yourself.Most company's have share capital as well United have none, the SC was simply transferred into debt. The debt position of United was not created by unsustainable borrowing that is often implied, in fact they have a good business model. Despite having one of the best income streams in world football the average spent on player since 1992 is only £7 million a season, compare to City £22m, Chelsea £20m, Spurs £10m and Liverpool £10m. If you bring that more up to date from 2003 we have United £6m with City at £45m, Chelsea £39m, Spurs £15m, Liverpool £12m and even Stoke have spent similar to United £5m.
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/
The bit that worries me about the EPL, especially the 'top 4' is the wages. Chelsea, Man Utd, Ars**al and Liverpool all spend in excess of £100,000,000 on wages each which makes them very vulnerable to losing ECL money.
By contrast Tottenham, who perhaps could be called the 5th biggest club in England spent £40,000,000 a year a couple of years back.0 -
The bit that worries me about the EPL, especially the 'top 4' is the wages. Chelsea, Man Utd, Ars**al and Liverpool all spend in excess of £100,000,000 on wages each which makes them very vulnerable to losing ECL money.
By contrast Tottenham, who perhaps could be called the 5th biggest club in England spent £40,000,000 a year a couple of years back.
That is why a wage % of turnover cap would be great, although I guess Chelsea and especially City would not like it.'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
Unfortunately, the latest news is that Liverpool may get docked 9 points if the club falls into the hands of RBS. Parallels have been drawn to the West Ham scenario where the parent company fell into administration. The difference between that and Kop Holdings is that LFC is Kop Holdings only interest. The Icelandic parent company of West Ham had other interests.
It's probably explained better in this link:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gI0Dd0a092N3es2Z5ynVGlaM5lcQ?docId=N0152561286480357178A
I hear it can only come into play if a club is insolvent, the club is not.
Not really that worried about that TBH, More likely it is people trying to twist H&G's arms as the club would be instantly worth less "if"it happned.
It would be like docking the points should an owner become insolvent but not the club, not a logical step.0 -
Many United fans want them to go insolvent so they can start again, it has worked for Chester City, they went bust and started a new club right at the bottom and the fans are loving it, 2500 home gates and took around 1200 fans to Witton Albion this week.'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0
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I hear it can only come into play if a club is insolvent, the club is not.
Not really that worried about that TBH, More likely it is people trying to twist H&G's arms as the club would be instantly worth less "if"it happned.
It would be like docking the points should an owner become insolvent but not the club, not a logical step.
That was we've been led to believe based on the West Ham scenario. The article that I linked to was released 16 hours ago so up to date.
I'm not counting my chickens until Hicks is out of LFC forever and Henry is sitting watching the derby..0
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