Facing the sack after being accused of bullying and harrasment by a 12 year old.

nicole2216

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Just to clarify something that seems to have got lost, but is VERY important, legally....

OP is not employed by the school.

She is employed by a company that has a contract to provide services to the school.

OP's contract is with the company, and any rights she may have lie against the company employing her, not the school.

Op's employer has no power in law to insist that the school allow OP to continue working for the school.

What this means is that the school is perfectly entitled to refuse to have OP working on their premises - provided that the reason for this decision does not amount to unlawful discrimination (eg race, sex disability, age) which isn't an issue in this case.

Since OP can no longer work at that school (the question of whether the child was telling the truth, or whether her co-workers would back her up or not, is irrelevant as far as this is concerned), then her employer is under a duty to try and find alternative work for her, within the employer's company, but if that is not possible, then she no longer has a job to go to, and the employer is entitled to terminate her employment.

But this is not a redundancy situation because the job still exists - just that the school won't let her do it - this type of dismissal comes under the heading of 'some other substantial reason' and is a potential fair reason for dismissal.

Whether it would in fact be fair depends on whether the employer has followed a fair and proper procedure. One of the considerations would be the employer's conduct in telling the headmaster that OP would not be returning - before the disciplinary hearing had been held - and what effect this might have had on the school's decision to refuse to allow her back.

But if the tribunal came to the conclusion that, notwithstanding the employer's actions, the end result would have been the same, which is to say that owing to pressure from parents and disruption between the children, it would be best for OP not to continue working there, and providing the tribunal was satisfied that the employer had no other work to offer her (or if OP refused the offered work) then the dismissal would be a fair dismissal.

I hope this helps to explain the situation that OP finds herself in, from an employment law point of view.

This is exactly what i was told this morning. It is all very clear to me, I understand the postion the Headmaster has been put in by my Operations manager. The fact that she told the headmaster I would not be returning to the school before I had had my 1st disciplinary has made matters a whole lot worse.
I have resigned myself to the fact that I will (hopefully) be offered another postion at another site, and to be honest, this will proberbly be good for me too. I just dont want a written warning on my work record as it would not look good at a new site. The bonus with going to a new site, if I ever leave and go for a new job, at least I can get a good reference and have no issues when the question - why did you leave your last job? come up.
I still feel let down by my operations manager and my work colleagues, but hey, thats life. Some people arent what they seem!!! Its nice to be nice but it doesnt always get you anywhere!!! :A

SarEl

nicole2216 wrote: »

This is exactly what i was told this morning. It is all very clear to me, I understand the postion the Headmaster has been put in by my Operations manager. The fact that she told the headmaster I would not be returning to the school before I had had my 1st disciplinary has made matters a whole lot worse.
I have resigned myself to the fact that I will (hopefully) be offered another postion at another site, and to be honest, this will proberbly be good for me too. I just dont want a written warning on my work record as it would not look good at a new site. The bonus with going to a new site, if I ever leave and go for a new job, at least I can get a good reference and have no issues when the question - why did you leave your last job? come up.
I still feel let down by my operations manager and my work colleagues, but hey, thats life. Some people arent what they seem!!! Its nice to be nice but it doesnt always get you anywhere!!! :A

So very true. I unfortunately see too many "they were my friends" until this thing happened! Best to realise now that you can be nice and friendly - but best to keep friendships for outside work or when it is proven. Alongside "never work in your kids school" - sad but true. I do hope this works out for you, but no matter what, your attitude is exemplary. It's rare to see someone who can see both sides no matter where they are personally - and I am sure that it says a lot about who you are. Which means good luck possibly isn't necessary - but good luck anyway.

Bamber19

nicole2216 wrote: »

I still feel let down by my operations manager and my work colleagues, but hey, thats life. Some people arent what they seem!!! Its nice to be nice but it doesnt always get you anywhere!!! :A

As far as your colleague goes you've unfortunately learned the lesson that many people who have problems with their employer or who raise an action for unfair dismissal learn and that is that for many people their own job comes first and their not willing to risk straining their own relationship with their employer by speaking out in favour of an aggrieved employee. Whilst i'd always hope people would be truthful it's understandable that people often "forget" things they've witnessed for fear of putting themselves in the same position, more so if they don't believe speaking out will bring you a positive outcome.

RacyRed

lynzpower wrote: »

QWhat do you mean Racy, anyone can join a tradesunion, you don have to have them represented in your workforce, you just join up *confused*

Very true, but the control private employers have over their staff means that an employee known to be a union member may experience problems in the work place of the very subtle variety. If, for instance, if promotion is solely at the discretion of the private employer then the union member will often find themselves continually overlooked.

In effect, it means that the benefits of union membership are negated by the problems that membership itself can create.

And I have found from personal experience that it is not possible keep union membership confidential, the unions themselves make this virtually impossible.

So yes, theoretically, anyone can join a union, but realistically it isn't an option for millions of us.

Apologies to nicole2216 for this side track on your thread.

Savvy_Sue

RacyRed wrote: »

And I have found from personal experience that it is not possible keep union membership confidential, the unions themselves make this virtually impossible.

How? I've joined a union as an individual: my subs come straight from my bank account, all my mailings and emails go to my personal addresses - how would anyone know unless I told them?

lynzpower

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

How? I've joined a union as an individual: my subs come straight from my bank account, all my mailings and emails go to my personal addresses - how would anyone know unless I told them?

Exactly, I have union membership that is organised directly with the GMB,not in my workplace- I jsut phoned them and set up the DD and its tied to my home address.

I dont think it is an employers "business" in the same way an employer doesnt need to know you have legal cover on your contents insurance.

I dont think union membership is out of reach to "millions" racyred, that is nothing but a myth.

RacyRed

Our experiences have been different, that is fair enough.

My experience was some years ago. I contacted a union explaining I wanted to join as an individual and that unions were not recognised in my workplace; completed the forms, which insisted on details of my employer. I specifically requested that all contact with me be at my home address/phone.

At first things were fine, then one day I received a letter, advising me of forthcoming strike action, addressed to me at work and with the union name and address on the back of the envelope. Personal correspondence was not allowed in the office I worked in (it was in our contracts) so the letter was opened and read. There was no way of hiding it then.

While working in the public sector I'd been a very active union member and also a TUC rep, so was very disappointed to be "outed" against my will while in the employ of a very anti-union private sector employer.

I am very glad that if things have changed but I still know far more people who do not dare join a union than I do union members.

MyUserName_4

Yes you are being persicuted by your Operations Manager

nicole2216 wrote: »

My appeal is scheduled for 1pm on wednesday 13th october.
My second discipline is at 2.30 wednesday 13th october, I am trying to get the 2nd discipline date moved, but as ive already cancelled once I cant see this happening.
I have also been adivised to raise a greivance with my operatations manager.
This is becomeing sooo hard!!!!

You're entitled to see ALL the evidence against you in a disciplinary and a reasonable amount of time to examine this and form a defence.

If they suddenly bombard you with new evidence or something you knew nothing about, in your second disciplinary hearing, don't panic, make it clear that this is new information, request all the evidence and ask for the hearing to be adjourned until you have a chance to examine the new information.

I appreciate you're having trouble finding someone to accompany you, but do take your own notes. Also, DON'T SIGN their meeting notes, without reading them properly first, and even then, you should only sign them if they are accurate. It's better to ask for a copy to take away with you, to read fully to make sure there are no traps. If the notes are incorrect, amend them before signing.

Good luck.

jjww_2

Yes you are being persicuted by your Operations Manager

Hi,

I know this might seem like a daft question but does the school not have cctv, my sons secondary school has cctv everywhere except toilets and changing rooms.

If so can they not check the tapes to prove if any of these incidents occurred.

Just a thought,

Good Luck

zzzLazyDaisy

Good advice by Myusername.

OP am I right in understanding that the second disciplinary hearing is about the same complaint that you were recently given a written warning for? If that is really the case, I can't understand the purpose of the second disciplinary, as the matter has already been dealt with.

If you are able to clarify this, it would help, as I think I may be getting confused!

Thanks