Why do workers always get the worse deal!

EL123_3

I'll try and explain this as brief as I can. I have had a chat with a solicitor this morning and am going to the CAB on Monday but wondered if people thought I am right to persue this dispute (from a moral point of view rather than a lawful one) or should I just pay up. (Solicitor said I should try and at least dispute some of it)

In January I started work for a domicillary care agency alongside my main but part time job - as time went on I realised how bad things were for the care staff, here are some examples:-

-Staff expected to start work 15 minutes before their rostered time to enable them to make it between calls, not being paid for time between, so as well as the 15 minutes per shift you could be working 6 hours but only actually get paid for 4/5 hours.(NOT put in contract) Bearing in mind pay per hour is £6 ish.
-Staff had to post/drive in time sheets each week, a minimal but morally correct cost? Also if you worked sunday evening you were responsible for getting the service users carer list to the office.
-Office number an 0844 number - costing lots (I think its about 40p a minute but not 100% sure) whether you phone office regarding admin work stuff or about a service user. Because I sometimes top up with free minutes and texts package for a month I could not use my mobile to phone the office and would have to re top up which was a pain if for example I had a problem with service user.
-Although staff got paid 40p per mile, if there were any 'non drivers' the driver was expected to drive the other staff home at the end of the shift, although once carers complained the company did start paying for fuel for this too.
-Points for days off ill/ 'mistakes' on service users reports etc - if they amounted up to a certain amount you didn't get your pay rise.

They have a very high turnover of staff (I wonder why?) There are a few other things as well but I wont go on, this is just to give you a picture.

So, I handed in my notice but after they called me in for a 'chat' we decided on me doing bank work which meant me texting in every week what hours I could do - which was basically Friday and/or Sunday evening as these were evenings they struggled with. I knew that I would not last long but did the four weeks 'notice' and a few more weeks. but there was no written agreement of this, just a verbal one. for the six months I was there I had one evening off sick but swapped it for another shift to help out. I was being quite 'soft' and helping out but really felt annoyed about the company.

Then, they changed the contract which basically made things a bit more disadvantageous for the staff (sickness review etc) which is when I decided I no longer wanted to be a part of this penny pinching buisness. I had already told them that I was on holiday for one week and after going to the meeting I let them know that I was not going to be around for the next couple of weeks leading to the holiday (which was not a lie as I was going to a different part of the country for a few weeks).

Then, when I was on holiday they texted me asking when I could work so I wrote them a letter explaining that I could not work anymore and that I would send them uniform etc asap (I was in another part of the country and have just had a hectic time lately, but letter was polite and apologetic).

They have now taken me to court stating that I have to pay them for CRB, training and equipment - so altogether with the £30 court cost I am expected to pay £220. However, I can send the stuff back so - £70 for that. I do feel bad about not getting round to taking the equipment back but I have them all ready to take back /post - I've just not got round to it yet.

On one hand I signed a contract saying if I didnt work my full notice i will pay back crb and training (I presume they must do this as they get fed up of their high staff turnaround) and didn't like the way they worked/stuff on the contract - but if you need a job you need a job and I'd rather that then get benefits or be poor. But now it seems that I am in a predicament.

My issue here really is the morality of it. I can afford to pay this if need be but what if I was a carer working my butt off for crap pay with family etc and I had this on my head. Why are businessess allowed to get away with this. If they treated staff better (and actually the way staff get treated reflects on service user - I quite often had to make a 30 minute call a 20/25 minute call to get to the next one especially if it was a double up call which I hated having to do and was all part of the wanting to leave) then they would not have such a high turnover. The CRB is needed for the job however long I was there as was the training.

I suppose this is the problem with care of the elderly being privertised, personally I think all care industry should be non-profit making businesses, that way you don't get greedy people taking advantage of the need for elderly care and people willing/having to take on these sort of badly paid with bad management.

Anyhows, in brief, do I fight this or is it just not worth it? Had the company been good to work for I would not have handed my notice in the first place or I would at least have left on good terms. I've always had a 'second job' and even though I'm now full time would have quite liked to be doing an evening or two for a good company. I am also supposed to have a 'leaving interview' which they put in the letter which they apparently record (although I know it is my right to refuse to have it recorded) and are quite nasty during it.

Thanks for any opinions.

kcuvad

Hi there,

Can totally understand what you say regarding your nightmare employer . grit your teeth get into your last interview just tell them what you think and feel about their company get it on record and put it behind you and go from there.

Give it to them but in writing , its a small amount itl probably go nowhere but keep youself in the right !

Hammyman

Workers always get the worse deal because they let themselves be walked over and don't invoke the rights and protections they have enshrined in law.

At the end of the day you have a choice - either be an employee or start up yourself.

SarEl

Hammyman wrote: »

Workers always get the worse deal because they let themselves be walked over and don't invoke the rights and protections they have enshrined in law.

At the end of the day you have a choice - either be an employee or start up yourself.

Would that include or exclude women who claim equal pay? Because it seems to be a "right and protection enshrined in law" which you don't believe people should exercise Based on your posts of course - I may have totally misundertood what you were trying to say....

ceridwen

Hmmm...maybe you ought to find a suitable way of phrasing "If you try that sunshine (ie taking me to court) then I'll go tit for tat and report you for paying me less than the National Minimum Wage".

Try working out how many hours you worked in total - including the ones you werent paid for and I wouldnt be at all surprised if that meant you had worked for less than NMW if you take those unpaid hours into account.

It might be worth your while as well checking whether they were legally allowed to make you pay the cost of those phonecalls that were necessary in order to do your job - or whether you could count them into the "Have I been paid at least NMW calculation?".

I bet they owe you more than you owe them if you work it out....so I would certainly be threatening a counterclaim in your position.

They may possibly be bluffing anyway - when they say they will claim against you for those costs anyway. I presume that it would be the Small Claims Court they would "chase you in" IF they do decide to chase you - worth checking out whether, if they DID chase you you could hold out till you saw "the whites of their eyes" (ie to the last possible day before it came to Court) without it costing you much (if any) money in costs to do so. They might think twice about going to that amount of hassle....

alunharford

EL123 wrote: »

Although staff got paid 40p per mile, if there were any 'non drivers' the driver was expected to drive the other staff home at the end of the shift, although once carers complained the company did start paying for fuel for this too.

Actually that bit sounds pretty good. No tax to pay, so if you can get on a nice fast road that should be worth far more than doing the actual job!

Anyway, the cost of providing a uniform (or fuel+mileage) doesn't count towards the national minimum wage. It doesn't sound like they're paying you the minimum wage. You're right to get an appointment at the CAB - they handle this all the time and can help you to claim money you're owed from the company.

Hammyman

SarEl wrote: »

Would that include or exclude women who claim equal pay? Because it seems to be a "right and protection enshrined in law" which you don't believe people should exercise Based on your posts of course - I may have totally misundertood what you were trying to say....

You mean the blatantly obvious to everyone except public sector workers, it would appear, that two people can be paid different rates for doing exactly the same job?

Its actually bra burners like you that are doing women a disservice by thinking every little pay anomaly must be down to sexism...

SarEl

Hammyman wrote: »

You mean the blatantly obvious to everyone except public sector workers, it would appear, that two people can be paid different rates for doing exactly the same job?

Its actually bra burners like you that are doing women a disservice by thinking every little pay anomaly must be down to sexism...

I have said no such thing as every pay anomoly is down to sexism - quite the contrary although you do appear to have problems with reading and understanding basic English, so I forgive your male stupidity which is obviously caused by an evolutionary hiccup - you haven't yet evolved. It is in fact you who jumps on every woman asking about pay and assumes that there is always a good reason for the difference, whilst others are suggesting that people (and not just women) should inform themselves of their rights and use them were appropraite.

And for the third time - also it seems caused by your problem with reading - I am a lawyer, and do not, and have never, worked in the public sector.

EL123_3

Yes i think I will definitely turn the tables, thanks all for your opinions (and sorry for getting two people worked up and in their own little sepearate debate!!). I have worked out that actually minimum wage was not paid and I am NOT going to let them get away with it. I worked hard for them even for the short time, was reliable etc and thats how they treat me. The cheek of it! GRRRR. I'd rather pay that amount to get them in trouble, more if I had to!

One question to the maths experts - if I worked say for example a 3 hour shift and divided £18 by 3.25 (so dividing £6 per hour although it was acutally £5.95 per hour) am I right id dividing 18 by 3.25 as the 0.25 is the extra quater of an hour? I know if I worked one hour and a quater for the first part of the shift thats not paid minimal wage as minimum wage is 5.80 and so that is 5.95 divided by 1.25. Just checking before I state this to the CAB.

Jacey53

What you have described is typical of care work.

The companies themselves get paid substantial amounts, but the front line workers are lucky to get minimum wage as there is so often this need to work longer hours than they are paid for.

Management is appalling. I have worked in a number of care homes as a casual employee for a few hours a week, whilst being a manager myself in my full-time job.
The managers in the care homes flout all kinds of legislation - Health & Safety, EWTD etc. The problem is the transient nature of the workforce, the fact that they are considered to be unskilled and the fact that they have no union representation in general. Many are poorly educated and not particularly knowledgeable about their rights.

The problems are perpetuated as when care assistants are promoted they behave in exactly the same manner. Training is often inadequate or there is the message that you are trained in one way and act in another.

The companies that run these homes are often on the gravy train. They are happy for corners to be cut in order to boost profits. The care workers themselves try to ensure that those being cared for do not suffer and end up with these problems.

And before anyone says - yes, it is a generalisation - but based on my own experiences.

ps Hammyman. I work in the public sector and am proud of it. I have worked in the private sector and found skivers, jobsworths, inefficiencies and people being paid a fortune for doing non-jobs - alongside good, hard, effective workers at all levels.
I pay their wages too - by using my salary to buy and to invest and to pay my taxes. I am also a woman.

Jacey53

EL123 wrote: »

One question to the maths experts - if I worked say for example a 3 hour shift and divided £18 by 3.25 (so dividing £6 per hour although it was acutally £5.95 per hour) am I right id dividing 18 by 3.25 as the 0.25 is the extra quater of an hour? I know if I worked one hour and a quater for the first part of the shift thats not paid minimal wage as minimum wage is 5.80 and so that is 5.95 divided by 1.25. Just checking before I state this to the CAB.

Divide the amount you were paid by the number of hours you worked to get your hourly rate. So yes, if you worked 3.25 hours and were paid £18 then you divide 18 by 3.25 = £5.54.

You will need to check your payslip for any deductions - tax NIC pension etc.