Should child benefit be means tested?

Murphy_The_Cat

grumpyeggman wrote:

my mistake,perhaps that should have read...tax avoidance schemes for the rich.
what about this for starters...


http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=5737

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4618413.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,682158,00.html

hang on a moment

The first two relate to pensions that we've already discussed and the last one refers to a few super-rich who have been taking advantage of a scheme thats been around for CENTURIES.

Without wanting to pick at your points to hard - is that the best that you could come up with ???????? Because the way that you & pmd were talking, you had quite a few examples to share with all of us.

Rather than, err, emmm, ahem NOWT

MTC

Plasticman

grumpyeggman wrote:

my mistake,perhaps that should have read...tax avoidance schemes for the rich.
what about this for starters...


http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=5737

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4618413.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,682158,00.html

There is a big difference between these perks for the super rich and tax avoidance schemes for higher rate tax payers. A 40% tax payer earning £39,000 a year is unlikely to benefit greatly from this sort of scheme. Can we therefore assume that the earlier posts in this thread about tax avoidance schemes for higher rate tax payers were wrong? I'm sure those paying 40% tax will now be grateful that you will let them continue to claim their child benefit

louisecoatesuk

achtunglady wrote:

* free dental treatment, working parents have to pay even for their kids, costs us £30 a month
* free eye tests and glasses, working parents pay for their eyes tests and glasses

I think you will find that all children are entitled to free dental treatment but you have to take them to an NHS dentist rather than a private one (Ok NHS dentists are very rare but they do exist)
Although people claiming benefits are entitled to free eye tests they only get vouchers towards glasses. The voucher covers the cost of a very basic pair of glasses and the range to choose from is usually very basic and not exactly appealing (clear plastic frames anyone!!!). This is no different to the scheme operated for Childrens glasses. they get a voucher which covers the cost of a reasonable pair of glasses but quite often the child wants something better meaning you end up paying the difference.
Last time I had glasses whilst on benefits I ended up paying over £100 for them as If I remember correctly the voucher covered basic lenses and £12 towards frames!!!

I believe Child benefit should be means tested for families with an income above £50,000 or that it should be abolished and the money attatched to the family/child element of the child tax credit meaning less paperwork for both the families concerned and the government agencies running it.

delluver

achtunglady wrote:

Just because someone earns £30,000 doesn't mean they are well off. For a start, that amount will be reduced to £22,000 when tax is taken off.
Then theres what working parents have to pay out that parents on benefit get for free, they get
* rent paid for, working parent pays rent or mortgage say an average of £400 a month, thats £4800 a year
* council tax paid for, working parent pays full amount, say average of £130 a month, £1300 taking into account that its paid over 10 months
* free milk for pregnant women,babies and children, working parent has to buy it all, 4 pints of milk cost £1.11, don't know how much a tin of baby milk is so cant compare
* £500 sure start maternity grant, working parents get nothing
* free school dinners, working parents have to pay for their childrens meals, say an average of £1.60 a day, thats £32 a month
* free prescriptions for adults, working parents pay for their own at nearly £7
* free dental treatment, working parents have to pay even for their kids, costs us £30 a month
* free eye tests and glasses, working parents pay for their eyes tests and glasses
* free uniform grants, working parents pay for their child(ren) uniform
* free childcare help with the Surestart scheme, working parents get nothing
* very easy access to crisis/budgeting loans, working parents get no access, we applied for a crisis loan when our cooker packed in, we had no money to buy another and were told well wait till next month till you get paid, a cooker to them is not a necessity, its a luxury!!!! And i had to pawn my jewellery to get money to buy the cooker.

The only things that a working parent and a non working parent both get are free contraception and child benefit.

I think you should look into your "working" parent and "non working" parent definitions. You can only receive those free entitlements when you're on income support. People on Incapacity benefit for example cannot work, but are not entitled to the things you list above. They end up paying out more on prescriptions than "working" parents as they have a medical condition, and have to buy several prescriptions a month. Madness!

Fran

You can get a free eye test... see Martin's thread.

delluver

Fran wrote:

You can get a free eye test... see Martin's thread.

Oooh, wikid! hehe. I'm due for one, it's been 2 years. I wonder what they'll make of my sub conjunctival haemorrhage that appeared yesterday. Had to go to the late night chemists last night for them to look at my eye. I have a midwife appt on Monday, so we'll see if it's got anything to do with raised blood pressure. At least I get free dental treatment, and prescriptions for a bit. I haven't taken advantage of that yet as I can't be on any meds during my pregnancy anyway, and I have no other external problems yet, so don't need pile cream, hehe. I have yet to find a dentist as I have moved too far away from my old one. Wish me luck! It was hard enough getting a new gp - a lot of lists are full!

delluver

freddy27 wrote:

I can't believe that people are so awful that they think child benifit should be paid to ALL. Surely anyone earning more than £30000 is not in need of this benifit. Fair treatment for all, look after the low wage and no wage people.

Agreed, how about you receive more for example if you're younger parents with a less disposable income as you have a higher mortgage because of house price rises and getting on the ladder later. But then again means testing should include outgoings testing. Everyone's situation is different! Bring in Lifestyle outgoings means testing, hehe.

Plasticman

delluver wrote:

Agreed, how about you receive more for example if you're younger parents with a less disposable income as you have a higher mortgage because of house price rises and getting on the ladder later. But then again means testing should include outgoings testing. Everyone's situation is different! Bring in Lifestyle outgoings means testing, hehe.

I agree with this. I have a friend who can't understand why I don't have any money left at the end of the month. He lives in a council house and has low outgoings. I own my own (basic!) house with a huge mortgage and the maintenance cost etc that go with it. He has more spare cash at the end of the month than me. His family get a good payout of tax credits - we get very little. Doesn't feel very fair to me. Having said that, I don't think means testing outgoings is a good plan. The system is way too complex already!

delluver

Plasticman wrote:

Or maybe the higher rate tax payers should be entitled to a higher level of benefit, as the put a larger amount of money into the benefits system?

I'm sure a lot of people would love to be earning with a higher tax rate - some people just don't hit it big in their career, and others can't work as they're incapacitated. There are so many arguments you could bring up. How about an equal income for all regardless of what you do? See what I mean?

delluver

melaniec wrote:

I could rant on about people having kids when they are already on benefit when they should have considered if they could afford them in the first place but I've probably upset enough people already.

So you're saying that people on a low income shouldn't have children even if they can't help that they're on benefits or a low income, but are fertile? Are you related to Hitler by any chance? People on a low income generally have to budget more than the better off, and have a less disposable income and would be glad of a little extra to put towards nappies or clothes. I can imagine it's put towards a holiday for those on a higher income.