Moorcroft - Threat To Visit My 70 Year Old Mother - Legal Position

NorthernLas

Should your Mum want to pursue un-enforceability, have a look at www.all-about-debt.co.uk. Given her age and assuming she does not want credit anymore it is well worth considering.

Ellabelle

Hi BigLad

It is important to clarify the difference between 'bailiffs' and anyone else who may call at a persons home regarding a debt.

UNLESS -

A 'county court judgement' (CCJ) has been granted in regards to this particular debt (eg. your mother has been taken to court)

and she has defaulted on this CCJ (eg: she did not pay the amount ordered by the court).

(Or the debt is unpaid council tax or court fines) - which it isn't in this case.

Then bailiffs cannot be sent to your mother, or anyone else for that matter.
If anyone came and took your mothers goods except a court appointed bailiff then that would be theft. (Under English law - might be different in other countries).

The person who the 'debt collection agency' (DCA) are threatening to send are merely 'doorstep collectors'. Doorstep collectors (who may also call themselves 'agents' or 'representatives') have no more right to enter your mothers property than I do (eg. they have no right to enter your mothers property).

DCAs often threaten to send doorstep collectors, however they very rarely do - it is an expensive way to collect debt for them.

In the fairly unlikely event a doorstep collector does turn up -

Your mother can just tell them to go away. If they don't they are trespassing and she could call the police if she wished.

She could say something like this to them -

"In your capacity as a doorstep collector you have no right to be on my property if I do not wish you to be here. Please Leave".

and if they don't then leave -

"As you have not now left my property at my explicit request you are commiting trespass - please leave or I shall call the police".

At this stage as they will then be aware that your mother knows her rights they will probably leave. In the unlikely event that they didn't leave your mother should call the police or simply shut the door on them.

If your mother does not want to open the door to these people (she does not have to) she could say the above through the letter box perhaps.

If your mother is worried her mind might go blank under the pressure of having this person at her door you could give her a little script with the above words (or something similar) for her to keep by the door.

Hope this helps.

Above all this isn't something she should be worried about (although I know it can seem like it is).

Kind regards

Ellabelle.

BigLad_2

Ellabellle,

That's very helpful - I appreciate the time you've taken to compose your reply and I'll pass that information on to my mother. I'm sure that will ease her mind.

Thanks also to everybody elae who has replied - I appreciate it.

Cheers

Jonathan.

DVardysShadow

Jinx wrote: »

Pay them by recurring online payment. Goes out regularly, no forgetting or double banking! ( I assume you have online banking even if your mum doesnt?) If you want the details I have them

Make sure it is Standing Order and not Direct Debit

BigLad_2

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Make sure it is Standing Order and not Direct Debit

Ah - good point!

FOURCANDLES_2

ganonman wrote: »

Not sure where I heard this, but I thought I'd mention anyway...

Don't let him in nomatter what the excuse is, because that would be classed as being allowed access and then you cannot stop them coming in next time or force them to leave.

Sorry if I'm wrong

Does this not apply to bailiffs are we or I should say the OP talking about DCA if so they have no rights other than to ask and leave when told to do so?

ani_26

Sorry to trespass on to this forum, but i saw the name Moorcroft, and 70 year old mum. You are right to be concerned, because they WILL send someone without an appointment. I know, because i've been there, myself. It does'nt matter what you tell her to say, because, after all, shes 70 years old.
My advice to you, is simple. Shes not to open the door to anyone. It does'nt matter if they say they are Prince Charles. They will stand outside and phone you. Tell her to unplug the phone, ( its still connected, but you can't hear it ringing ). Tell her to draw the curtains. I believe its correct you are not supposed to come without an appointment, and all the rest of it.

I would'nt worry her, just give her this advice, for your own piece of mind. Its extremely distressing, believe me. They can be very insulting and personal.

Nohope xx

ganonman

ganonman wrote: »

Not sure where I heard this, but I thought I'd mention anyway...

Don't let him in nomatter what the excuse is, because that would be classed as being allowed access and then you cannot stop them coming in next time or force them to leave.

Sorry if I'm wrong

mr.ton wrote: »

...and what is supposed to happen when he is in the house exactly?
He cannot take stuff - only court bailiffs can do that.
If he took any money off the woman, that would be theft.
So if he cannot be forced to leave, then whats supposed to happen then? just sat there on the sofa with feet up?

I think my point was just to not let them in nomatter what, especially if she is vunerable person.

Regarding the other stuff, I thought "Not sure where I heard this" and "Sorry if I'm wrong" were disclaimer enough to accept I'm not an expert and you should probably double check what I've said.

Ellabelle

Your welcome BigLad.

I have added the words "if I do not wish you to be here" (in purple) to my previous post just to make it clear that your mother is revoking any presumed right the doorstep goon has to be at your mothers doorstep (in the event they turn up). I don't think it matters too much though. She could just tell them to go away and that would be fine I think too.

There is a really usefull template letter you can send to Moorcroft on MSE to legally revoke there presumed right to come come up your mothers drive way and knock on your mothers door. (Being a DCA they might ignore this :mad: but you could give it a go anyway).

I will go find it, hang on a sec.

Ellabelle

Here is the template letter. I think it was originally from a poster called 'Fermi'. You could perhaps miss out the first paragraph if it doesn't apply in your case.

I would recomend sending it by recorded delivery or they will probably just pretend that they didn't recieve it :mad:.

Your Street
Town
City
Postcode
DATE HERE

Company Name
Road
Town
City / County
Postcode

Account Number: XXXXXXX

Dear Sirs,

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me over the past few weeks and these have been duly logged by time and date.

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep visit”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

There is an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

Yours faithfully,

(type don't sign)



Eb x.