advice needed on travel costs for access

oliviasmummy

Im wanting this information for a friend of mine before they seek legal advice. They have seperated from their partner over 12months ago after several years together but only a short time of married life. They have a child who is 3 so both parents have equal responsibility as they are both on birth certificate. My friend moved out of the family home and stayed with friends to try to improve the situation as the partner had said they were unhappy etc amongst other things. from day 1 my friend has paid child support and had regular access which they have agreed upon themselves without solicitors court orders etc. During the time they have been seperated they have remained close and tried to make a go of things which sadly have not worked out and they have finally decided that a permanent split is best and will begin divorce proceedings next year. My friends partner has since left the family home (rented) quit a perfectly good full time job and moved 1.5hours away (by car) to no job and living at the childs grandparents house.

My friend has had a promotion at work and progressed well in their career despite personal circumstances and has since increased at the ex's request the child support payments. My friend has arranged with work a more permanent working pattern so that the access with the child is more structured. The child has since started nursery and also attends paid sessions so my friend has access every fortnight fri-sun. They can not get every weekend off work and the other week they have 2days off during week and child is at school all day. Anyway things have started to get messy between them and my friend feels that its best to do things through the correct channels and wanted to ensure that the correct child support was being paid etc whether that be an increase or decrease in what was paid already so they have contacted the csa themselves to look at their case. They know they are entitled to a reduction due to having the child more than 52nights a year as access is also used when my friend is on annual leave but they wanted help with the travel costs. My friend doesnt drive the ex does. My friend has to take the train to pick up the child and up unitl recently they made an arrangements between them that it was fair for one parent to do the journey there to pick the child up and return home and then the other parent pick up and return home on the sunday. This was until last week when the ex txt to say they couldnt afford petrol to drop child off so my friend would have to do both journey's. My friend replied that as it was the weekend before payday they couldnt afford the two trips as it can cost £30 just for one return trip let alone another one at the end of the weekend. To which the ex replied well I guess you wont be seeing "y" next weekend then. The ex thinks thought my friend should borrow the money from somone and has this week said they have been to a solicitor and decided that in future unless they are already coming over to visit friends they will only fetch child over to my friend if they pay the petrol costs and that the solicitor has said this is reasonable as they are not denying access.

I dont believe this is the case, I think the ex is trying to call my friends bluff that becasue they didnt give into the demands last weekend to make both journeys to see the child the ex is trying to stop this from happening again and doesnt want to back down. The ex is the one that has taken the child from the family home which was walking distance from my friend, left a full time job and gone to live with parents over 100miles away. My friend is trying to be fair and pay 50% of travel costs which are still alot more due to mode of transportation and ex just seems to want it all their way. Im trying to stay impartial but just wondered what you all thought or if there was anyone that knew legally where my friend would stand. My friend currently pays child support even pays for half of other things needed, ie school uniform for nursery, new shoes, coat when needed etc even though the ex gets tax credits, child benefit and child support for all of this.

Sorry for the long post just wanted to try and get all info in there for quality replies.

kelloggs36

If your friend gets a reduction for shared care, they can't have help with high contact costs - it is either one or the other, so they need to work out which would be more beneficial and apply. the CSA ignore the first £15 of the costs for contact per xemweek (although your friend would need to check incase it is one of the exempt categories).

13Kent

At one point we had a 2 hour trip each way to pick up my OH children on a Friday, and the same 2 hours there and back on a Sunday every fortnight. On CSA one we applied for a departure for excessive contact costs, but were never sucessful, and always had to bear the costs ourselves. The PWC has never made any attempt to bring the children to us, or even to meet us halfway.

gratefulforhelp_2

I have a few comments on this...

as a newly single parent I also went to live with my parents for a time, it was a useful way of coping and getting extra support, and it is not an unreasonable thing to do

there is no need at all for the pwc to take the child anywhere at all for contact - my understanding is that it is the responsibility of the NRP, and I have successfully rebuffed my NRP's attempts to get me to meet him halfway down a motorway or whatever.

Finally, this kind of situtation is bad enough for the people involved, so unless you are involved directly, I would be v.v. cautious about any
comment to your friend, as people often tend to blame the innocent bystander (you!) when the ordure hits the air conditioning.

purplepardalis

We pay £250 in travel costs just because the pwc decided to up sticks and move away. At first she said she would share the journey and bring them down. That never happened and so our costs are that high each month. I think that there should be a responsibility on the pwc to facilitate travel if they are the one who has moved away. After all, contact is for the ultimate benefit of the child. Now I absolutely abhor those who refuse to pay towards the upkeep of their children. I also abhor the pwc who take every last penny because they are money obsessed and don't play fair.

Duncombe

gratefulforhelp wrote: »

there is no need at all for the pwc to take the child anywhere at all for contact - my understanding is that it is the responsibility of the NRP, and I have successfully rebuffed my NRP's attempts to get me to meet him halfway down a motorway or whatever.

But surely, it is the responsibility of the PWC to ensure their child has a relationship with the NRP?. They want their money after all.

If the NRP can not afford huge travel costs, then it is in the interests of the child for the PWC to help facilitate contact. If this means meeting at a service station half way down the motorway then so be it.

To me, moving away from the NRP then refusing to compromise on contact (and any costs involved) seems somewhat bloody minded and of benefit to no one.

PlayingHardball

I always hate posts when 'posters' post on their 'friends' behalf. You are going on heresay and what the friend tells their friend! And then what is said here.

(no further input from OP, I note)

Personally and from experience, I'm with Grateful. If Dad really wants to see his kids, he would find a way, surely. Its completely understandable that the Mum moved back in with parents to get re-established after the separation. No, she shouldn't have to foot even 50% of the bill for the ex to see the kids, thats his responsibility. Unless he offered to pay her petrol!

13Kent

Why should the PWC only help with contact if they have chosen to move away? The reason I feel strongly about this is because...

My OH DOES everything he can to keep contact with his kids, despite the obstacles put in place by the PWC.

My OH had to move away due to his job -( no job = no child support) also as it wasn't his choice to leave the family home - he was pushed out by the PWC when she was having yet another affair ( he forgave her in the past in an effort to keep his family together) He then gets hit with high maintenance ( paying nearly double what he would if he were on CSA1), arrears for amounts he had already paid as the PWC was dishonest and said he had paid her nothing, and then excessively high contact costs in order to keep in touch with his children, (at least £200 a month) not to mention having to maintain a decent car that would comfortably do a 2 hour journey rather than a little 'runaround'. All this nearly left him bankrupt and certainly on the breadline with no money for basics for himself never mind luxuries, or to his dismay birthday or Christmas presents for his children. He would have been financially better off leaving his job and going on benefits - but he had too much self respect for that. Luckily when we got together I was able to help support him (and his children when they did stay with us) until time passed and things gradually got easier financially.

For all this time the PWC making no effort whatsoever to meet him half way, but still being controlling and demanding about times of pick up etc, and insisting that the children be back at a 'reasonable' time on a Sun (ie 4pm - for teenagers) meaning having to leave at lunch time - so only getting half a day with them, insisting that they don't come on Christmas day (We were positively encouraged to have them over New year as she could go out without having to pay for a babysitter) They couldn't come on Mother's day weekends, hers and their birthdays (but not returning the favour on Father's day, or Dad's birthday) and being unreasonable when a 2 hour journey was often longer than it should have been due to traffic problems. Ringing them on a Sat night or Sun morning when they are with us to say "Guess what I've bought you" so that the children no longer want to be with us but are desperate to get back to Mum's to play with whatever she had bought. Not to mention the times when contact has been arranged, and then at the very last minute when a phone call is made to double check arrangements he is told by the PWC that the children are "too busy" to see him despite arrangements being made a while previously. - He is never allowed to talk to the children though " they don't want to talk to you because they think you'll be cross with them". Once when they were coming to stay with us for a week, all arrangements were in place, children seemed excited about it, and the night before phone call made to arrange pick up times and .."They've changed their minds and don't want to come any more". A later conversation with them about why they didn't come just got a "dunno" response. It's heartbreaking - and more so for our children who love them dearly and are so excited when they know they are coming and so upset when they don't turn up. We now don't tell them until they are on their way in case they don't come!

It's an absolute nightmare, but we keep plodding through however hard it is, for the sake of their relationship with us.

Things are not always so black and white, and it's not always the NRP that was the person at fault when the relationship ended.

gratefulforhelp_2

Duncombe wrote: »

But surely, it is the responsibility of the PWC to ensure their child has a relationship with the NRP?. They want their money after all.

No it is not. It is the responsibility of the NRP to ensure that, it is the responsibility of the PWC to be reasonable in arranging contact.

"They want their money" is a pretty big generalisation.


If the NRP can not afford huge travel costs, then it is in the interests of the child for the PWC to help facilitate contact. If this means meeting at a service station half way down the motorway then so be it.

It is often in the interests of the child. However the PWC as well as having the joy of the child's company most of the time, also has all the accompanying work. Why can an NRP not put some effort in also? That's why its so hard to generalise, as lots of NRPs make loads of effort and go the extra mile for their child/ren.

What I was saying what that there is no requirement for the PWC to facilitate contact in this way (meaning I have never heard of a court saying it should happen).
I'm sure there are lots who do. I don't, but then to comment on that, you would have to know all the details of my situation (which you don't).

oliviasmummy

playing hardball and grateful. I dont come on here very often due to my own personal circumstances hence the reason for no reply till now. Im not going by hearsay at all from my friend I know both of them very well and she didnt move back in with parents to re-establish after seperation they seperated a year ago she got dumped by new boyfriend at new year then moved back near her parents 5months later. she had a perfectly good home that my friend moved out of to try to improve the situation quite a full time job and now lives off the state and promised to never prevent contact with my friend and his child but now thats all changed. My friend has spoken to csa himself and they have said he is paying too much and would get a reduction due to travel costs because she is the one that has moved the child away from walking distance he has filled in the forms and they are taking it from there.

My friend has offered to give his ex petrol money to fetch the child and pick back up again as this actually works out cheaper than just one return ticket on the train but she wants him to pay this to pick child up and then pay her petrol to pick him back up again. I know there are people out there that try and not pay for their children (my dad was one that did and succeeded) but my friend doesnt want this he just wants things to be fair even more so when the seperation was not what he wanted to his ex is the one who has chosen all of this and seems to be the one that wants it all to suit her. If she genuinly couldnt afford things I would be more sympathetic with her however the child comes every fortnight in clothes that are too short/small whilst she has nails, hair extensions, fake tan and nice clothes on.

Trying_to_be_good

It's a really difficult situation, but it could get even more difficult - my OH's ex took their kids to live in a foreign country, so to maintain contact we were paying >£1,000 per month for flights for a single visit of less than 48 hours a month. Fortunately we were able to do that by going without lots of other stuff. Others have even more expense for contact.

The law is very one-sided, favouring the PWC - we had to put the kids first and maintain the best relationship with them (and their Mum) we could. Sometimes it does seem very unfair, but that's just the way it is.

Good luck in keeping up the contact, as often as possible. We found that the kids' Mum values her 'time off' enough to make more of an effort now, so we're making the most of it whilst that lasts.