are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

dunstonh

The FOS should then stay clear of calling these charges fair if it has no remit on them. By calling them fair they're making a judgement.

They are calling them fair because no court has called them unfair.

FSA has 12.4.1R which says arrears charges should reflect admin costs. The 'R' means its a rule and not guidance. It follows then that only a full breakdown of the charges would prove it does not make a profit on costs.

Correct. And most providers that have been checked have been able to satisfy that requirement.

Unfair terms' legislation states any charges should not be disproportionate and any term allowing this will be deemed as unfair and thus unenforceable.

If you are that confident then take it to court and prove everyone else wrong. Until you do it doesnt matter what you think. Until they are ruled unfair, they are fair.

tifo

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/mortgages/2009/07/mortgage-lenders-charging-strugglin

Many homeowners have successfully got their money back when levied with these charges. The Ombudsman says in its 2009 annual report: "Many of the complaints we have seen about mortgage arrears involved disputes about arrears fees.

"We settle a significant proportion of cases in favour of the consumer, where we found fees had been applied incorrectly or had been charged for work that had not been done."

tifo

I quote from FSA's report and subsequent fine against GMAC-RFC .... a few other lenders were also fined for the same reason.

4.18. The above charges were unfair because they did not accurately reflect the additional administration work to the mortgage account caused by the fact that the customer was in arrears.

5.5. In addition, GMAC did not treat its customers fairly as a result of applying certain charges and fees to customers’ accounts that were unfair as they did not accurately reflect the additional cost of administering an account in arrears in breach of MCOB 12.4.1R and 13.3.1 R.

dunstonh

I responded with your duplicate posts on the other thread. No point posting twice on different threads.

tifo

dunstonh wrote: »

I responded with your duplicate posts on the other thread. No point posting twice on different threads.

That's fine. But this is my thread so maybe others might respond to points raised here. They might not see the other thread, in which i was responding for the OP's sake.

HughJarse_2

dunstonh wrote: »

They are calling them fair because no court has called them unfair.

But no lender has proved them to be fair, despite their obligation to UTCCR and s140a and s140b of CCA. Instead the lenders just pay you off and try to get you to sign a confidentiallity agreement.


Correct. And most providers that have been checked have been able to satisfy that requirement.

Checked by whom? The FOS or the FSA? useless fools, ask a Court to check they have satisfied their requirements/obligations, and you will be offered lots of money to withdraw your claim.



If you are that confident then take it to court and prove everyone else wrong. Until you do it doesnt matter what you think. Until they are ruled unfair, they are fair.

Again you are inferring that there is little or no chance of success.
I don't understand why. There is a very good (99-100%) chance of a successful claim through the Courts.

dunstonh, I do wonder if you are actually an IFA or if you really work for Santander.

tifo

The complaint has now gone to a second Adjudicator (the first one left) who is reinvestigating the case. He has confirmed that they DO look into mortgage arrears fees and that he has written to the bank. He said the charges should reflect costs. He will also look into the legal fees as they are now part of the outstanding balance.

tifo

had a decision again but it's much the same as before, except that the bank 'seemed' to have provided a breakdown which shows their costs as £35+ a go (i'd like to see it!) and the charges are therefore fair.

no comment on FSA 12.4.1R, the FSA fines on some mortgage lenders' unfair treatment of customers and that the UTCCR's cannot be used on a price basis.

i don't know what the FOS are doing but it doesn't seem right.

roonaldo

ive read through this, working in the industry myself, I agree with what dunstonh has written.
Tifo, GMAC were charging far more at £50 arrears fee and a additional £15 for not paying by DD which is why they got fined, so you cannot compare them.

dunstonh

i don't know what the FOS are doing but it doesn't seem right.

The FOS are applying the rules correctly. If you dont like it then take Santander to court. It doesnt matter what you say on an internet board, it is not going to change anything. The FSA, the FOS and most here are telling you that there is no wrong doing. If you dont agree then you only have the courts left.