'Do you support public spending cuts?' poll discussion

LSEdwards

SomethingWitty wrote: »

We don't *need* cuts right now. If the deficit really is as large as claimed, cuts could eventually come as the economy grows, not before. However, the economy can only grow with either increased or sustained public expenditure during a recession. The main problem right now isn't the deficit, its the recession, unemployment, and poor economic situation - much wider things in other words

This recession is a private sector recession. We need a state spending healthy amounts of money to create jobs and sustain the economy. Look at Connaught, the building firm, who are now in administration because of Govenrment cuts. All the suppliers to healthcare, schools, etc, and the people who supply those suppliers, all of whom employ people, will suffer if we cut. YOu just end up putting people out of work, and they in turn can't spend any money on anything, so everyone loses out in the long run.

Now that private sector demand is shrinking, the state should step in, with big infrastructure projects (, big capital expenditure, and a big kick start to the economy. Then, as the private sector recovers, we can start cutting slowly, when the private sector is strong enough to take up the slack.

Cutting now is the worst thing we can do. Granted, efficiency savings etc are fair enough, but "cuts" - not for me thankyou. At least, not right now.

Firstly, public spending is not being cut.

Secondly, your Keynesian analysis is all very well, but to coin a phrase, "there's no money left". If the Government doesn't come up with a plan that will convince the money markets that they can get public spending under control, the credit rating of UK debt will be downgraded, which will put up the cost of borrowing, which will inflate interest costs even higher. They are already growing at an alarming rate.
Fortunately, the markets seem to trust the Coalition as evidenced by the dramatic fall in forward rates since the election.

Thirdly, the public sector does not create wealth, it spends the wealth that the private sector creates.
The problem with the UK economy is that the public sector has grown too big to be sustainable. This was hidden from view during the Gordon Brown years by the rapid expansion in private credit. Now that the credit is no longer so freely available, there isn't enough "wealth" to fund the level of public spending.

Fourthly, we need a dramatic reduction in state benefits to restore some fairness to society.

I personally believe that those who aren't contributing to society in some way should have their vote withdrawn. Never mind no taxation without representation, what about no representation without taxation?

LSEdwards

alimckay wrote: »

We are all sitting waiting till November to find out how many of us will still have jobs next year yet I sit in an area which still employs daily rate expensive contractors who have already been told they are needed till May next year - they do the same job I do and have done for the last 5 years - its time people started sending in FOI requests on contract paid staff - we ask and get told its a different budget so not in line to cut - its you the council tax payers budget and its going on expensive contractors that cost 4/5 times what the staff cost - so we keep 1 of them and pay off 4 staff then tell me people wont notice the difference

You say that contractors cost 4/5 times more and you also say you want and FOI request to find out how much contractors cost. Which is it?

I suspect that, if you include the gold plated pension, redundancy costs, excessive sick time, recruitment costs and lack of productivity of full time employees in the public sector, they do not cost 4 or 5 times less than a private contractor brought in on a short term contract.

The private sector has had pay feezes and cost reductions for years and I really don't see how the public sector can be immune from efficiency savings.

Public sector workers are paid much more on average than private sector workers.

Gordon_the_Moron

LSEdwards wrote: »

I personally believe that those who aren't contributing to society in some way should have their vote withdrawn. Never mind no taxation without representation, what about no representation without taxation?

Since many taxes are indirect how do you figure who is and isn't "contributing"

LSEdwards

Gordon_the_Moron wrote: »

Since many taxes are indirect how do you figure who is and isn't "contributing"

I wouldn't include those whose only contribution to society was to pay taxes on alcohol and cigarettes.;)

I admit that the "qualification" to vote would be a little tricky to frame, and probably quite unpopular with a significant porportion of the undeserving, but hopefully not impossible.

A few requirements:
- over 16 (not 18 in my view)
- not registered insane or whatever the politically correct terminology is
- not serving a sentence for a serious offence
- declaring and paying direct taxation of at least say £500 in the last tax year, unless registered disabled or having qualified to vote for 20 or more years previously.

i.e. retired people and pensioners who have worked previously would be allowed to vote, as would those who are too ill to work.

dizzybuff

carlw wrote: »

frontline services are not going to be cut so your comment is tosh!

Okay so what about the cuts to the fire service and police service , both are emergancy services . The NHS is protected these two are not !

dizzybuff

As a public sector worker myself . The RH (If you can call her that) Threasa May has stated that we (police service) will have to cut our spending by 25% over the next 4 years. Many Police forces are tying to do this by naturalk wastage , retirements and resignations from posts are not being filled. This May be possible in the Larger Police forces Metropolitan , W Mids and GMP however smaller forces such as Devon and cornwall will have to use Clause 19A to make police officers retire. These officers all with 30+ years service are the most experianced of the bunch and the government will be saying thanks but see ya. Police staff however will just be told there is no post for them. Reviews of spending are always evident in any Public Sector role. Due to the amount of paperwork and administration an officer has to do less than 12% of responce officers are available at any one time .

Police staff , the ones at risk , are being placed into roles to cover this administration so Police officers , who are in back office positions can be moved back onto the street to fill absent posts.

But we can only do so much, we are stretched now more than we ever have been. Cheif Constables fight every year for our budgets . But reducing the budget by as much as the Governement want to , will loose valuble Officers and give a very early Xmas present to one section of the community only . The criminals as the Police will have to prioritise even more at what crimes they resond to.

This reduction will and is causing unrest in the police service, many coppers and police staff just want to serve the community, if the governement carry on they will not have the support of the police. That is one step the government do not want to take.

angiebhfx

Fourthly, we need a dramatic reduction in state benefits to restore some fairness to society.

I personally believe that those who aren't contributing to society in some way should have their vote withdrawn. Never mind no taxation without representation, what about no representation without taxation?[/QUOTE]

I have worked full-time since I was 18, over 20 years. I have been unemployed since Jan this year, I have had interviews for jobs that I am qualified to do, more than qualified to do and not been successful in getting the job. I know this isn't because of how I perform in interviews because over the past 10 years I was offered every single job that I went for. I have decided to go to University to train in a different field now. I have volunteered in the time that I have been unemployed and will continue to do so while I am at university.

My point is there aren't enough jobs, I applied for a bar job yesterday, along with 50 other people, so what's the answer? As for benefit, if you look at my previous post £65.45 pw for JSA or ESA contribution or income based isn't very much to live on when you have to pay all your utilities and food out of this. Incidentally, you only get contribution based for 6 months.

angiebhfx

LSEdwards wrote: »

You say that contractors cost 4/5 times more and you also say you want and FOI request to find out how much contractors cost. Which is it?

I suspect that, if you include the gold plated pension, redundancy costs, excessive sick time, recruitment costs and lack of productivity of full time employees in the public sector, they do not cost 4 or 5 times less than a private contractor brought in on a short term contract.

The private sector has had pay feezes and cost reductions for years and I really don't see how the public sector can be immune from efficiency savings.

Public sector workers are paid much more on average than private sector workers.

These statistics of public sector workers pay is always based on middle management. An admin assistant gets around £13k a year which is the lowest admin grade within the public sector. Private companies are now holding the "you should count yourself lucky you've got a job" threat over peoples heads now and have forced in pay cuts not pay freezes and a lot of private companies treat the bottom ranks abysmally.

pigswillfly

Blue light services are important but there are simply too many of them. The police, particularly, although a vital service have become bloated and vastly overstaffed, they keep telling is how bad it will all be, nonsense crime is reducing year on year.

We should be developing social capital within communities, too many CCTV cameras its only there to keep us all scared, When we are scared we are easy to control.
The good news.....Everything is OK!

Happychappy

Absolutely agree to the spending cuts, the £14 billion cut out of a £192 billion budget for benefits is ridiculous, the benefit budget should be cut by 25% or £48 billion, in line with most other public services, not less than 7% so still huge savings to be made in the state hand outs, also foreign aid wants stopping and we should be requesting it from other countries for the uk.