Accident at work - not impressed!

shegirl

geri1965 wrote: »

Our secretary had 3 weeks off with a broken big toe. She still uses it now when she needs an excuse not to come up and do something.

The big toe plays quite a part in your walking though.A little toe doesn't and most people manage fine with broken little toes..

Some people watch where they are going too though

Hammyman

SusieWinwood wrote: »

I walked into a chair leg yesterday at work and after going to the walk in centre and having an xray I was told I had broken my little toe. :mad: It's like a pork sausage and my foot is swollen and black and blue.


Just needed a rant!

Sorry but you've only yourself to blame.

Hammyman

SusieWinwood wrote: »

I walked into it as it was in my walkway - I did not deliberately injure myself! I did say we have raised concerns since February but nothing has been done.

Did it magically jump out in front of you as you approached? No. You weren't paying attention to where you were going. There is only one person at fault, you.

dickydonkin

Googlewhacker wrote: »

So let's summise that the company have moved to cut costs because they are struggling, presumably then if the space is inadequate and the suggestion is to move to a larger office but the cost of this would mean the company would need to cut costs in other ways (for example redundancies) then would this would make the current room acceptable (if all the furniture is required) under the current conditions?

I know that is an extreme example but I would like to know.

Correct me if I have misinterpreted you post, but the example you cited seems to be more directed at operational issues - not health & safety or 'reasonably practicable' terminology.


First of all - it is irrelevant if the company is struggling because that does not in any shape or form preclude the employer from neglegting his duty of care to employees or disregarding UK legislation that is in force to protect workers.

Let me use another analogy but no different from the one you quoted.

A company is struggling financially and their machines are operating without guards - placing their employees at obvious risk.

Legislation is being ignored - employees are placed in danger - both are unacceptable in 21st century Britain.

Just because that company has no money does not mean they are immune from legislation or indeed the duty of care to their employees and others - it just does not work like that.

Disregard legislation or Ignore the findings and recommendations following a risk assessment at your own peril - that just might finish off a company who are just keeping their heads above water.

Googlewhacker

dpassmore wrote: »

Correct me if I have misinterpreted you post, but the example you cited seems to be more directed at operational issues - not health & safety or 'reasonably practicable' terminology.

Let me put it another way using your analogy.

First of all - it is irrelevant if the company is struggling because that does not in any shape or form preclude the employer from neglegting his duty of care to employees or disregarding UK legislation that is in force to protect workers.

Let me use another analogy but no different from the one you quoted.

A company is struggling and their machines are operating without guards - placing their employees at obvious risk.

Legislation is being ignored - employees are placed in danger - both are unacceptable in 21st century Britain.

Just because that company has no money does not mean they are immune from legislation or indeed the duty of care to their employees and others - it just does not work like that.

Disregard legislation or Ignore the findings and recommendations of a risk assessment at your own peril - that just might finish off a company who are just keeping their heads above water.

I was enquiring about the reasonable practical reasons for moving office due to H&S. If the office does not meet 11m3 would it be reasonably to expect the company to relocate if this was going to make them bust?

I would have thought not and if they carried on as they are after the recommendation what would happen?

stuckinmyflat

is it a hairline fracture or a break ?????

dickydonkin

If the office does not meet 11m3 would it be reasonably to expect the company to relocate if this was going to make them bust?

Let me answer that with a question.

Using the example I provided in the previous post, would it be reasonable to expect the employer of the company to address the dangerous situation and replace guards that are creating a life threatening situation and breaking UK legislation and by doing so could also make them bust?

If a H&S inspector visited both premises, the owner of the office would likely be 'advised' about the congested office.

The second scenario would undoubtedly result in a prohibition notice on the machinery and they would be stopped immediately, resulting in lost production and all of the problems that such enforcement causes.

Now let's use the same scenario - but change the circumstances.

Suppose the OP tripped over in the congested office, banged her head on the corner of a desk and (God forbid), died as a result.

And suppose that the workers in the 'dangerous' factory managed to operate without guards without any injuries.

Which is the most dangerous working environment?

Now this thread has highlighted why the EU wanted to change the 'reasonably practicable' flexibility within our H&S legislation - it is just too subjective.

I would have thought not and if they carried on as they are after the recommendation what would happen?

As I stated earlier, ignore advice, legislation and recommendations at your peril - you may be fine while operations are plodding along hunky dory - but when things go belly up - expect serious repercussions.

Googlewhacker

dpassmore wrote: »

Which is the most dangerous working environment?

You've not really answered the question but to answer yours, the second is still the more dangerous scenario because the employees are at more risk in there compared to an office that may not have adequate space

laurz121

Is this 11 cubic metres of workspace for people in desk based jobs right? If it is then surely every school in the country is breaking health and safety laws.

Also I really can't believe that somebody is blaming another person for them walking into a stationary object. 'it was in my walkway' is no excuse, you wouldn't just plow your car straight into an another car if it was parked in the road in front of you would you.

dickydonkin

laurz121 wrote: »

Is this 11 cubic metres of workspace for people in desk based jobs right? If it is then surely every school in the country is breaking health and safety laws.

Also I really can't believe that somebody is blaming another person for them walking into a stationary object. 'it was in my walkway' is no excuse, you wouldn't just plow your car straight into an another car if it was parked in the road in front of you would you.

The 11 cubic metres approved code of practice does not apply to 'lecture halls' so I suspect that classrooms may come under that terminology.

I agree with you totally regarding blaming the individual for hurting herself - nobody deliberately decides to kick a chair leg and break a toe - particularly when walkways are blocked and space is restricted through no fault of their own.

You've not really answered the question but to answer yours, the second is still the more dangerous scenario because the employees are at more risk in there compared to an office that may not have adequate space

Well if you read my response carefully, I have.

I gave a perfect example (not beyond the realms of possibility) of how your assertion is blown completely out of the water.

Because the way UK legislation can allow an employer to disregard or not fully implement his duty of care due to cost, there is no definitive answer - as I stated previously, it is very subjective and the reality is that it is always the employer who will determine that the cost outweighs the benefit.

A safety professional may determine otherwise and as I alluded to earlier, ignore such advice and recommendations at your peril.

You suggested the factory with no guards on machines was more dangerous than the office with restricted space.

I highlighted that a seemingly inocuous work area can be just as dangerous as the factory with dangerous machinery in certain circumstances.

Another aspect of cluttered working areas is an increased risk of fire. For example, where a larger office has been condensed into a smaller area and all of the work equipment is still being used, I bet the new office does not have enough electric sockets.

So what happens then is that block adaptors and extension leads are used - causing possible overloading and not to mention the additional trip hazards of trailing cables.

What you also have to consider about a workplace is not just the environment the work is being carried out - but also the numbers and type of people working in them.

Lets go back to the office.

If one of the girls in that office became pregnant, then that could compound an already difficult situation. A risk assessment to take into consideration the pregnant worker must be carried out and again, if done properly, it would likely determine that due to the congested area and impeded walkways, this would create a risk to the mother to be.

I always ask myself this question when assessing a workplace - whether that is an office, a warehouse, production area etc.

Would I be happy to allow my son/daughter/wife to work in this factory/office?

If not, then I would obviously have reservations on certain aspects of safety.

I would then ask what would need to be done for me to feel comfortable about members of my family working here?

I would make recommendations and ask for remedial actions to be considered.

Although no members of my family are employed in the workplaces I assess - I consider all of the workers who I would be responsible for as part of my family.

If everyone thought the same then perhaps their attitudes may change when 'clipboard man' (a term directed at me in a previous thread) is inspecting your workplace to make it safer.