The rental market

IveSeenTheLight

LydiaJ wrote: »

Why do you assume that a degree is well correlated with the ability to do a job well (assuming it's not actually relevant, like doctors etc)?

In many of the job descriptions and posts I see in my industry, a degree is stated as a preferrence.

I didn't go to Uni (similar to PN as it was not discussed clearly when I was at school), but studied through Open University.

Indeed, I was once on an Open Uni class with an 80 year old

PasturesNew

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

PasturesNew, have you looked into the Open University? I would have thought that would have suited you very well and I think those on low incomes can get courses vastly reduced or free. You can pick and choose modules and are not under obligation to go to tutorials (I could never be bothered).

I did some in the past.
Then couldn't afford it.
Then my life became too changeable to do it.
My life at the moment is too changeable, I don't have the resources necessary.
I do plan to have another go at it, once I have a more settled life (a home, broadband, desk)

Cleaver

PasturesNew wrote: »

It's a different thing entirely.... does the job actually NEED a degree (e.g. Doctor), or have you simply moved the goalposts so everybody has to have one now to get a job?

No, generally if we say a job needs a degree, it needs a degree. We always pretty much say degree or equivalent though, so experience counts.

PasturesNew wrote: »

I went to Next Step to find out if I should do a degree... they told me there was no point, I have experience.

I would humbly suggest that this was poor advice. Arm yourself with as much relevant experience, skills and qualifications as you can get to give you the best chance of getting the job.

PasturesNew wrote: »

I went to a College for an interview with the question "should I come here and do a degree?" they said no, there was no point, I knew far more than any degree could teach me ...

Again, I think that's bad advice. You obviously have loads of skills and experience, why not do a degree as well?

Generally, as an employer, someone having any academic qualifications shows me a lot more that just academics. There's loads of additional stuff that you having a degree (or any other qualification) tells me about you.

PasturesNew wrote: »

then offered me a place on their guest speaker list for the courses I had just been enquiring about. But there's no way for people without a degree to get jobs where somebody's written "degree" on the spec.

I should have really said at the start, we always put 'or equivalent experience'. But if you're managing a team of people who are all graduates, then I'd quite like you to have a degree as well.

PasturesNew wrote: »

University of Manchester have done some research that says if candidates are tested for the jobs they are applying for (e.g. a sit down literacy, numeracy, IT test maybe... perhaps some logic tests), then an employer is more likely to get somebody who can do the job; it seems a lot of employers are using the wrong measuring sticks these days to recruit with.

We do all these tests, we look at skills, we look at competency, we look at experience and we look at academic qualifications. Degree is one very small part of the puzzle.

PasturesNew wrote: »

I don't have a degree. I think only 10% of people went to Uni in my day - in fact, at school, we weren't even told about them. I was about 35 before I found out what going to Uni was for. I'd simply not known, or mixed with, anybody who went to Uni. I still don't ... it's only here/MSE that I find people with degrees, not in my real life much.

That may be your experience, but I'm just saying that we generally recruit people with degrees or masters. Why not? If there are a pool of people with good skills, great experience, perform well on tests and have a degree, why not recruit from that pool? Makes sense to me.

Cleaver

LydiaJ wrote: »

Why do you assume that a degree is well correlated with the ability to do a job well (assuming it's not actually relevant, like doctors etc)?

I don't think it's the sole thing. I think it's one indiactor along with proven skills, competency, strengths, experience etc. etc. We'd never let someone walk in just because they have a degree, that would be rather foolish. They might be terrible at their job, and degrees are ten a penny nowadays (they don't always mean that much basically). But because so many have them, why not ask for one? Either that or demonstratable experience. It's as decent a yardstick as any other.

LydiaJ wrote: »

Candidate A
Age 22
Academically slightly above median, so went to uni because these days, as you say, about 50% of young people do go to uni.
Little relevant experience

Candidate B
Age 52
Academically in the top 20%, but not in the top 10% who went to uni back "in the old days" so no degree.
Many years relevant admin experience

Sure, candidate A has the degree, but are you sure they'll do the job better than candidate B? Can you see why candidate B might have a case for age discrimination if you give the job to candidate A on the grounds that they've got a degree?

Firstly, my HR department would hide their age, so I wouldn't know their ages. But that aside...

The first thing I'd do with their CVs / Application forms is see which one has tailored it for my job. In the current climate, where we get millions of applications, I imediately like the ones that really tailor their application for my job. And 99% of the CVs we get have not even slightly been altered for the job they are applying for, which is their loss as it really winds me up. Tell me why you want this job, and why you'd be good at it.

So that's the main thing for me, along with (obviously), their experience, skills and other qualifications.

LydiaJ wrote: »

Sure, candidate A has the degree, but are you sure they'll do the job better than candidate B? Can you see why candidate B might have a case for age discrimination if you give the job to candidate A on the grounds that they've got a degree?

We both know that we'd interview both and then take them based on a massive range of factors, not just their degree. How well do they fit with my team? What experience have they got? If they haven't got experience, will they pick it up quick? Do I actually want the most experienced person for a job? That might sound odd, but I might want a less experienced person because I see this as a development role.

To summerise, we ask for a degree for most roles, or equivalent experience. This is maybe 5% of the job requirement, the rest is a whole range of other stuff.

Dirk_Rambo

a degree means nuffin these days. any halfwit can get 1. i got mines by email from some american colege. but it deos the trick niceley

Cleaver

Dirk_Rambo wrote: »

a degree means nuffin these days. any halfwit can get 1. i got mines by email from some american colege. but it deos the trick niceley

Is your degree in spelling?

Dirk_Rambo

no. phD in astralphysics i tihnk. it only cost 200 dollars and it realy impreses the chicks

Malcolm.

Cleaver wrote: »

We both know that we'd interview both and then take them based on a massive range of factors, not just their degree. How well do they fit with my team? What experience have they got? If they haven't got experience, will they pick it up quick? Do I actually want the most experienced person for a job?

????????

PasturesNew

P.S. Rents are still too high....

Malcolm.

PasturesNew wrote: »

P.S. Rents are still too high....

Is used to be £40 all inclusive, now it's at least £60.

That's inflation for you.