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Debate House Prices
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Generation Whine
Comments
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by the way, a minor point, but with the blackheath example, there's proper blackheath village area where a 1 bed flat would be around 250 grand and a wider area which is more like kidbrooke and not so nice. that's my understanding of it anyway??
That's the trap here. London is incredibly volatile. There was a time (and it wasn't so long ago) that Clapham was widely regarded as a dump. Streatham and Blackheath (both recently mentioned) have also risen in the ranks. Neither is anything like the place it was in the 1970s, so comparisons between affordability then and now are completely meaningless.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Thats all fine, and I'd agree. But goes absolutely no where near answering my point.
If we are going to compare, surely we should compare properly?
What is a proper comparison when the social conditions are different? I can agree life is more difficult now for a single earner with a non-working wife particularly in London. But I would claim that buying a good house is easier now for a couple on average wages particularly outside London. Swings and roundabouts.
The point is with a restricted supply, houses will go to those who can pay. Which social groups are lucky will change over time. But on average I suggest it will be pretty similar.
Then we can go onto the question of the standard of housing that is considered acceptable. Whether a £190K 2 bedroomed flat in Blackheath would now entice a young aspirant barrister and his teacher partner I dont know, but suspect from attitudes expressed on this forum that it may not.0 -
Another reason to moan - Newsnight is talking about pensions and old age. Pointing out that the next generation won't be as prosperous as their parents.
They are saying in 2030 people are not going to retire.I'm not cynical I'm realistic
(If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)0 -
What is a proper comparison when the social conditions are different? I can agree life is more difficult now for a single earner with a non-working wife particularly in London. But I would claim that buying a good house is easier now for a couple on average wages particularly outside London. Swings and roundabouts.
The point is with a restricted supply, houses will go to those who can pay. Which social groups are lucky will change over time. But on average I suggest it will be pretty similar.
Then we can go onto the question of the standard of housing that is considered acceptable. Whether a £190K 2 bedroomed flat in Blackheath would now entice a young aspirant barrister and his teacher partner I dont know, but suspect from attitudes expressed on this forum that it may not.
Still nothing to do with what I asked. But there we go, guess I'll have to leave it!!0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Still nothing to do with what I asked. But there we go, guess I'll have to leave it!!
The poster can't answer because s/he doesn't know what happens.
I know cos I've asked people in that situation.I'm not cynical I'm realistic
(If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)0 -
That's the trap here. London is incredibly volatile. There was a time (and it wasn't so long ago) that Clapham was widely regarded as a dump. Streatham and Blackheath (both recently mentioned) have also risen in the ranks. Neither is anything like the place it was in the 1970s, so comparisons between affordability then and now are completely meaningless.
Streatham yes, Blackheath, no. It's always been one of the priceier and nicer parts of south London. The image in the 1970s was pretty similar to today....much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.0 -
Plenty of 2 bedroom flats in Blackheath offered for around £180K-£200K. So with 3-4X joint salary it doesnt seem way out. And London is a special case as prices must have been seriously inflated by the high pay in the financial sector, less of a factor in the 1970's. Also, I guess Blackheath is now rather more upmarket than it was then.
Of course today's FTBers may not consider a 2 bedroom flat as appropriate for people in their position.
I don't think Blackheath is more upmarket now than in 1974, though. Not according to my dear Mama, anyway....much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »However, reduce that joint salary to a single salary with the advent of a child, and what would happen?
It's what NDG's parents did, and survived through it. Could you now? 7-8x salary AND a child?
3 years after they married, my parents did indeed drop to one income, as they had me, then my 3 younger siblings....much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.0 -
neverdespairgirl wrote: »I don't think Blackheath is more upmarket now than in 1974, though. Not according to my dear Mama, anyway.
With respect to your Mama, I think I might slightly disagree. London changed so much between, say, 1970 and 2000 (I lived and worked there for much of that period )that I don't think anywhere remained untouched. Blackheath was always a bit 'nicer' but it hadn't been quite as gentrified as it later became. Greenwich, likewise.
And I really think this is the problem. Areas change (look at Brixton for heaven's sake!) so someone breezing into the discussion without an accurate historical perspective is likely to be completely misled when they start trying to make comparisons between then and now.0 -
by the way, a minor point, but with the blackheath example, there's proper blackheath village area where a 1 bed flat would be around 250 grand and a wider area which is more like kidbrooke and not so nice. that's my understanding of it anyway??
My parents were in proper Blackheath. Near the edge of the Heath itself.
Pretty much like this one, apparently, very close by and similar in size:
http://www.primelocation.com/chain-free-property/details/id/SKEW7054318...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.0
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