Old CCJ question

TUS

The background

In Sept 2005 my partner (before we had met) was going through a rough time, financially, and fell behind on water payments to Northumbrian Water. A CCJ was issued that year (unsure of the exact date/amount at the moment, although I will find that out via Trust shortly).

Since then, she has moved house 4 times, the last 2 times with me since we have been together.

We have been in our currently property 2 months and she has received a letter from debt collectors chasing the debt of approx £780.

She doesn't necessarily dispute that there is an outstanding debt, but no longer has ANY paperwork relevant to the CCJ, etc. No letters, nothing. All that is remembered is that letters were received and ignored (I'm not interested in judging her for this, I may add - I am just interested in dealing with where we are now).

Action

Am I right in thinking that:

* Once the CCJ was issued, it prevented the debt ever becoming statute barred?
* It has been nearly 5 years since the CCJ was issued - yet I am assuming DCA have been unable to track her moving home (odd since she was always on the electoral roll at each address). Why has this not escalated any further - such as bailiffs?
* Can the DCA only chase for the amount ordered under the CCJ? 7 days since the letter was issued has passed as we have been on holiday ... does this give the DCA any right to add charges or can I still focus on the CCJ amount if I were to contact them?

We're very much focused on being debt free and part of that is repairing her credit profile. So a priority is not to damage it any further (or mine).

We are not yet married or financially linked via joint bank accounts, etc. All finances are totally separate, the only link is via our address and children.

What is the right course of action?

Firstly I want to ensure the amount is correct - if it is, shall I just pay in full (I can just about afford this), negotiate (on what grounds) or ignore (assuming bad idea)?

Attached to the letter is a request for our statement of affairs (incoming/outgoings) which I have no intentions of responding to.

Finally ... how long will this hang on her credit file for? Is it 6 years from the debt satisfied date, or 6 years from the CCJ issue date?

Thanks in advance!!

PNPSUKNET

its 6 years from ccj been issued. they have 6 years to chase the debt from the date of issue but they can with good reason go back to court to have it lifted. Its best to sort it, some water companys have been known to make people bankrupt.

NorthernLas

A CCJ is on credit file for 6 years after issue. It cannot be statute barred, but as previous poster says after 6 years the DCA would need to go back to court to action. So it will drop off her file whether satisfied or not in 6 years.

No sure why it has not been chased since your OH has always been on the electoral roll. It could be that the debt has been bought by a company who specialise in recovery of debt that is nearly statute barred (or CCJ not collected).

You need to be certain that the DCA have authority to collect the debt. While I appreciate you want to become debt free, I would suggest that you first get the DCA to prove OH is liable for the debt (have a look at the national debtline website letters section for a letter). You will know from the trust when the CCJ was issued and therefore how close it is to 6 years.

If they have bought the debt, you may be in a much better position to offer a reduced F&F to settle the debt (since they will have bought it for much less than its value).

Whether you decide to settle or delay until after 6 years is up to you. They could go back to court, but they have to give justification as to why they haven't collected so far. If you put the money away gradually, you would have it ready to pay off if they started to get heavy.

TUS

The DCA is Alexander James & Co, which seems to be an official DC for Northumbrian Water (and another company) ... so I'm not sure someone has bought the debt as such ... although I guess they are chasing it now as its getting to the last year of the 6.

I think the most sensible thing to do is to repay the debt as they have a whole year to continue chasing which would probably look good for them should they return to court. And if I understand it correctly, if we settle it now the CCJ will be removed from her file next year anyway?

I'm just going to make absolutely sure the figure they have provided is correct first.

Thanks all.

TUS

More help needed. :-/

The letter we received stated she owed £733.12.

I've just done a Trust search and it returns these two entries:

** NAME ** NORTHAMPTON CCBC ** REF ** 20/07/10 £1,281 Unsatisfied Judgment
* Address *
** NAME ** NORTHAMPTON CCBC ** REF ** 26/09/05 £668 Unsatisfied Judgment
* Address *

Can they issue 2 CCJs for the same debt, and why the increase in the amount?

Any ideas what is going on here?

EDIT
This sounds similar to this:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?244317-Bryan-Carter-2-ccj-s-1-debt

Could the 2nd CCJ be unlawful? Am thinking I should be calling Northampton to get a copy of the papers.

NorthernLas

I think calling Northampton is your next step.

TUS

Will do so tomorrow (assuming they'll be closed today).

Next question - if we want to get the 2nd one set aside, do we need to complete the forms to do that before or after settling the debt for the first one? Or should we wait for the 2nd one to be set aside before paying?

TUS

OK, something else which I have wondered about.

My OH has continued to have accounts with Nortumbrian Water at all subsequent addresses she has lived at. Why has the amount owed not followed her and shown on her account with them?

The letter from Alexander James & Co states:

"On 22 September 2005 Northampton County Court entered a judgment against you in respect of outstanding water service charges. Our records show that you have failed to make payments to Northumbrian Water as instructed by the County Court and the balance of £733.12 still remains outstanding.

We have tried to contact you by telephone today but have not been able to speak to you and it is now our intention to start further court proceedings to recover this amount which will incur further legal costs being added to this account."

Now, something isn't adding up here.

1. The CCJ was issued 26/09/05 and not 22/09/05 as they mention.
2. The amount of £733.12 doesn't match the CCJ figure of £668.00
3. All attempted contact must have been made via old phone numbers and the previous address at which she resided in 2005. This letter is the FIRST letter received at our current address or ANY of her previous 3 addresses which she lived at since 2005.

The fact that basic dates and amounts don't tally is ringing alarm bells for me. I just dont know whether we should attempt any contact with Alexander James & Co (DCA) regardless of whether we are calling Northampton Court tomorrow.

The letter is dated 25 August 2010 and states she has 7 days to contact them. Which takes us to Wednesday.

NorthernLas

No, I wouldn't contact them (and certainly not by phone). The court action infomation is to get you to call them (they are fishing to see if you react).

Wait until the information comes back from Northampton. Getting rid of the 2nd CCJ is far more important.

I would wait until they send you another letter. What further action can they take than a CCJ?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/CourtClaimsAndBankruptcy/DG_10013083 Gov info on CCJ, or look on National Debtline website for their factsheets

reall

very complex,
I would suggest getting into contact with the northampton courts to find out when these two ccjs were aCquired to make sure that they are not other peoples bills added onto your partners. As your partner did not notify them or keep in touch it is difficult for them to get hold of your partner and possible other tenants etc may have just sent back the letters in the post which would have gone back to the original address until royal mail notifies them of a person moved away.Charges may have been built on from debt collectors,baliffs costs and county costs.
Either way she should chase it up as it is her responsibility,she could check her credit file to see what information is held by the three main bureaus,equifax,experian and callcredit .
after she finds out if she is liable and for how much she should find out who has her account and contact them to arrange to pay them over a year or so by standing order something she can afford and keep to.If she is no longer with the same water company she can negotiate more easily as they can not cut her supply off otherwise she will have to include her existing expenditure into the sum offered per month.
not paying can more seriously affect her credit rating and possibly yours when you marry.best to sort it out .

TUS

NorthernLas wrote: »

No, I wouldn't contact them (and certainly not by phone). The court action infomation is to get you to call them (they are fishing to see if you react).

Wait until the information comes back from Northampton. Getting rid of the 2nd CCJ is far more important.

I would wait until they send you another letter. What further action can they take than a CCJ?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/CourtClaimsAndBankruptcy/DG_10013083 Gov info on CCJ, or look on National Debtline website for their factsheets

Agreed on the 2nd CCJ. We can just about afford to clear the amount owed under the 1st CCJ ... and this is 5 years old so would drop off her file next year anyway. That we can live with ... and I don't have an issue paying what she owes.

The 2nd CCJ is concerning as it's a lot more money and very recent. I really want that one set aside. The confusing thing is that all addresses she has lived in have been very local to each other AND she has had a constant Northumbrian Water supply at all of them. I'm not sure whether she has transferred her account each time she moved house or whether a new account was setup.

However, the account at our current property is in my name so hopefully that isn't affected.

This letter seems to have coincided with our names being updated on the electoral register for the new house we moved into 2 months ago.

reall wrote: »

very complex,
I would suggest getting into contact with the northampton courts to find out when these two ccjs were aCquired to make sure that they are not other peoples bills added onto your partners. As your partner did not notify them or keep in touch it is difficult for them to get hold of your partner and possible other tenants etc may have just sent back the letters in the post which would have gone back to the original address until royal mail notifies them of a person moved away.Charges may have been built on from debt collectors,baliffs costs and county costs.
Either way she should chase it up as it is her responsibility,she could check her credit file to see what information is held by the three main bureaus,equifax,experian and callcredit .
after she finds out if she is liable and for how much she should find out who has her account and contact them to arrange to pay them over a year or so by standing order something she can afford and keep to.If she is no longer with the same water company she can negotiate more easily as they can not cut her supply off otherwise she will have to include her existing expenditure into the sum offered per month.
not paying can more seriously affect her credit rating and possibly yours when you marry.best to sort it out .

We are getting the statutory credit reports for the 3 CRAs this evening to see whats on there. She didn't pay water for 2.5 years before the CCJ in 2005 ... so the £668/£733 figure is probably reasonably accurate.

As I've mentioned, we can pay this. It's the 2nd CCJ which concerns me as I don't think it should have been served and probably only was served as it wasn't defended. I'm hoping that we can use the fact they were sending letters to an old address as grounds to get it set aside ... as Northumbrian Water must have had new address details for her on file as they were supplying her water elsewhere for 5 years! Not to mention that her credit file has all her addresses linked and the electoral register was always updated with each move.