Field Support Engineers

Mr_Oink

bigalec wrote: »

I take it you have first hand experience of Openreach's current work practices Mr Oink

Yes, hence my remarks about trackers etc.

bigalec wrote: »

it appears you seem to be talking about work practices that occurred 10 years ago?

No, it continues where trackers are not fitted.

bigalec wrote: »

Then again I expect that washing machine repairmen are probably all crooks

AFAIR, most appliance companies CRB check their employees, unlike Openreach. So you are probably more likely to find a crook at Openreach. If you think about it, the act of sitting in an exchange drinking tea when you should be working could be considered fraudulent and obtaining money by deception in itself and I imagine, if you start going through the sheds and cupboards of the average Openreach engineer you'll find BT property, tools, cable, stores etc. Gee, I forgot to mention that: Openreach engineers have all their tools bought for them too. Jesus, why don't they wipe their backsides too!

bigalec wrote: »

Thanks, I take that as a personal insult.

That is your prerogative, but somewhat childish in my view. Don't shoot the messenger.

bigalec wrote: »

So what's your big and important job then?

I'm sorry, that would not be any of your business - but thank you for your interest

jimbms

I was once in a similar role but covered the whole of the UK at times but mostly like yourself local, at times I only got home at weekends although actual working I did 40hrs and wage was £32k with another £9k in benifits.

bigalec

Mr_Oink wrote: »

AFAIR, most appliance companies CRB check their employees, unlike Openreach. So you are probably more likely to find a crook at Openreach. If you think about it, the act of sitting in an exchange drinking tea when you should be working could be considered fraudulent and obtaining money by deception in itself and I imagine, if you start going through the sheds and cupboards of the average Openreach engineer you'll find BT property, tools, cable, stores etc.

Openreach do run CRB checks on new recruits, in fact I know of a few who were dismissed when results of CRB checks came back, there maybe some crooks amongst the old guard though as I don't know when they started the checks.

Mr_Oink wrote: »

Gee, I forgot to mention that: Openreach engineers have all their tools bought for them too. Jesus, why don't they wipe their backsides too!

You sound like my level 3 manager who famously told the engineers in a conference call they they only had to supply their own pants and socks as Openreach supplied everything else. You're not him are you?

Mr_Oink wrote: »

That is your prerogative, but somewhat childish in my view. Don't shoot the messenger.

Well when someone refers to those that are doing a job which I was proud to be doing as pampered, lazy low skilled wet twonks...

Mr_Oink

bigalec wrote: »

Openreach do run CRB checks on new recruits, in fact I know of a few who were dismissed when results of CRB checks came back, there maybe some crooks amongst the old guard though as I don't know when they started the checks.

About time too.

bigalec wrote: »

You sound like my level 3 manager who famously told the engineers in a conference call they they only had to supply their own pants and socks as Openreach supplied everything else. You're not him are you?

No, but you know something - he's dead right though. I guess if Openreach engineers could whine a little more they'd get the pants and socks too.

bigalec wrote: »

Well when someone refers to those that are doing a job which I was proud to be doing as pampered, lazy low skilled wet twonks...

I stand by that as I believe it to be accurate. Overpaid and underwork. Just ask any decent, hard working FSE if he / she would like to swap their deal for yours:

36.5 hour week
virtually no unsociable hours
an elite call out rota with bonuses and guaranteed paid time off to sleep
overtime rate
25+ days holiday and no bank holidays
6 months full paid sick leave, an extra 6 months at half pay 
hand picked jobs on many occasions
local work
easy to get out of jobs you don't like
easy to get assistance and help with jobs
not needing to have a full set of skills to do a job
all your tools supplied
your van supplied
your fuel supplied
your shoes and boots provided
your ppe provided
nearly all your clothing provided
mobile phone and laptop
free wireless broadband
£24k +

I'm sure their hearts would bleed for those poor Openreach engineers - most of which have very limited technical skills. :rotfl:

There are the odd exceptions - usually one or two in each CSE - but don't make out it's some kind of hard existence. Many people would be justified in saying it simply takes the p***.

If we start talking about PPO's Pole Testers, Survey Officers, Coaches, Second Stage repair et al - and how little they do for the money - I guess it would make the average CSE look hard working by comparison. As someone said 'it's all relative'.

wurzel69

I'm sorry, that would not be any of your business - but thank you for your interest [/QUOTE] Professional w**ker by the sounds of it!!

BIGDOG_2

I have been working for bt/openreach for 14 years , I must admit when i first started on bt we did have it pretty good .
But to say that engineers are lazy (Mmm) As we are continuously monitored , engineers are pushed out or threatend with unemployment for productivity . Has happened and will continue I know the engineers personally . Since the tracker it has got alot harder , Average 90 minutes a job that includes getting onsite . Sounds easy until you have to do exchange work / cable identify to property / cabling customer end , aswell as calls all day (have you done that job yet) having to call managers most of the time or sort out jobs built wrong etc .
When it's good or bad weather we don't stop another day at work so to say we sit around all day would love too , in reality we are questioned all the time about what we are doing why are vans stopped etc .
Managers have a more aggresive approach on the way engineers are dealt with ( peformance programmes ) More people on warnings than ever before, more people going off sick . If you get to see people sitting around all day as you say , I only wish you could come and work with me if your not ringing wet and mentally trashed after a good days work .You've been dragging your heels around me . Havent met an engineer quicker at cabling yet.
Just wish i could work in the part of bt you do (Pimms Oclock). And saying we wriggle out of work , Why do we have to call our level 1 if we are passing jobs back . Repeat reports call level 1 . trc call level 1 .
If you want to point why not point towards all those other departments that are all paid more than the engineers , due to us being some of the lowest paid in bt .Don't get me started on pay grades !
As the buck stops with us which it does , Oh yeah the scapegoating is easy and as i said the buck stops here or you would have looked at your own department or colleagues or yourself . You must be a manager because you are so quick to point out every Bad that has been not once pointing out anything positive (bt new approach managment ) , forgetting that without engineers you wouldnt have ADSL TO WRITE YOUR MESSAGE .

Mr_Oink

.... Adding a tracker and pushing engineers for productivity is one of the best things that could have happened. However, plenty of BT Openreach engineers still cheat it. It has not ended the rein of terror where staff comp off jobs that test OK, leaving end users with service effecting faults AND getting charged, so they can get their productivity fix and sit around killing time. It's not all of them, but it is not uncommon.

I tend to object to the word 'Engineer' being used where BT Openreach operatives are concerned. They are battery and light bulb type technicians, unqualified and resistant to change and learning.

Truth is your job is easy and overpaid - you can teach a monkey to do it. As for your kind offer to come to work with you Bigbog; If I were to come out and work with you for a day, you'd be asking for a rest by mid morning because *YOU* could not keep up. Running your little drop wires, cat3 and changing over 5-100pr cables (assuming you actually have UG skills) is a doddle. Naturally I understand how you would have seen it all change in 14 years, but really don't try and preach that what you do is difficult hard work - because it does not compare with what real engineers have to do on a daily basis. FYI that would be the variety that have some qualifications, are skilled and don't rely on their companies to supply everything apart from their socks and pants.

Gordon_Hose

wurzel69 wrote: »

Professional w**ker by the sounds of it!!

You ACTUALLY signed up and used your first post to say that.

*slow clap*

Well done you.

whiterabbi

I have no idea what agenda Mr_Oink is working from, but he/she/it has obviously inside knowledge of the business, judging from the terminology used in the posts - but as a CSE with OR, I take enormous exception to his/her/its comments about the job we do and the skills we possess. Exactly what role in BT/OR does he/she/it fulfill? Is he/she/it actually in a position to criticise us having done or doing the job at present? Is he/she/it a manager? He/she/it cannot be working as a multi-skilled engineer in a rural district in 2011 - I can get three jobs in by 12:00, but I still have to work through the rest of the day - I've no idea where the concept of sitting on one's prod having cleared 'my three' sits in the current ethos - you can clear six and still not meet your target...and as for being unqualified wire-twisters - he/she/it just hasn't the first idea and I challenge he/she/it to a head-to-head battery-and-hr-fault-finding contest in 10Km of mixed circuit any day (preferably in the worst, out-in-the god-forsaken-sticks-in-winter-with-horizontal-sleet-weather) - if he/she/it is up to it of course...

brutus1983

Hagar_uk wrote: »

Just curious if there are any other people on the board who do a field service type roll and what they consider are typical working conditions.

My other half is giving me grief as she thinks I am being taken advantage of due to my workload, she comes from a quango based employemnt background where things are very different. I feel in someways I probably am, but not by a huge amount, just curious on other peoples take

Basically I cover the southern parts of uk (cornwall up to bradford), I get a email at around 6pm the previous day telling me where I am going. usually site it is 2 -3 hours away, sometimes 4-5 hours, and spend between 2 and 8 hours on site. meaning typically leave home and get home 7 to 7, sometimes more sometimes less. no overtime and no set policy for time off in lieu.

I don't expect a 7.5 hour working day as in this sector that never happens,

back on topic eh

yes i work in a field engineering type of role i cover the entire uk apart from ireland some days i can be out at 4 in the morning and dont get back till 9 at night or later in fact i went dagenham last week was out at 3.30 am and arrived on site at 7.30 left site at 6.30 pm arrived home at around 12 ish some days are rough and some days i can be nice and local a long week will be in around 80 odd hours a usual week is 40 hours and i do all the driving

all this for a salary of 18k thats with supplieing my own ppe no overtime payments and certanly no bonuses