Dispute over will...

Sally1973

Sorry to hear of your troubles amersall, you have my sympathy.

My cousin moved abroad years ago and hasn't had much to do with my aunt at all apart from watching the bank account for her. It's none of my business and was between them, she adored him, and I would never say anything detremental about him to her as I'm sure she had her own opinions about his behaviour towards her. It's all very sad.

My husband and I sold our house and moved 150 miles to be closer to her, I know that we've done nothing to reproach ourselves about. I'm just so upset that my cousin has done it really. I know he knows it's not what she wanted, and I know he know's it's the 'wrong' thing to do. I guess he has to live with that. I've heard of stories like this before several times, I just never thought a member of my family would be like that.

googler

BLT wrote: »

So you are getting 20% of the proceeds of a house purely by dint of the fact that you are related to someone and are upset that you are not getting any more.

No, the OP (as an Executor) wants to distribute the estate according to the will, and they can't do that because one member of the family is holding onto part of the estate and won't let go.

dzug1

googler wrote: »

No, the OP wants to distribute the estate according to the will, and they can't do that because one member of the family is holding onto part of the estate and won't let go.

Nope - what he's hanging on to ISN'T part of the estate so the will doesn't come into it.

Sally1973

Thanks Googler that was my point yes, however it looks as though that money was not part of the estate as it was in joint account with my cousin. As long as I know where I stand.

~ thanks for standing up for me though

getmore4less

The guidance from HMRC and HMCS are clear that an asset can be either joint or tenants in common.

It even uses an example like the OP describes in IHT206 for a IHT205 tax return

Valuing joint bank accounts

Valuing the deceased's share of a bank account is quite easy, as the example before shows. But sometimes an account may be held in joint names just for convenience. For example, if an elderly person can no longer get out, they may add a son or daughter’s name to their bank account so the son or daughter can operate the account for them.
If an account is in joint names for convenience and the deceased provided all the money in account, you should treat the account as if it was in the deceased’s sole name. Include the full balance of the account in box 12.3 (for joint assets) or 11.1 (if the account was held as tenants-in-common). But the opposite also applies, and if the deceased did not provide any of the money in the account then, so long as the provider did not intend to make a gift, there is no need to include anything about the joint account on form IHT205.

I was advised by a solicitor if we did some thing like this to make it clear in writing and put it with the will.

So isd there any documentation supporting the view that this was a tenants in common 100% aunt asset?


The second point
If this was the case that a joint account holder owned half the assets and got the rest through survivorship then it would be a very easy way to reduce a inheritance tax bill. Allthough I would expect HMRC to have a look.


Simple solution is include the account in the calculations and just take the amount allready held from the share that passes to the one holding the account. But I think you would need some clear evidence that the account was the way you deal with it.

I don''t think there is no requirement to actualy collect it before distibution.
What does probate and the Inland revenue help lines say because they determine if what you put on the forms is correct or not

If you don't want to account for it all then 1/2(joint) should be OK as I think assets aquired through through survovorship can be taken into account totting up the shares.
Might be a comprimise.

Anything in the will on this particular asset.

Now if you decide that the account is a joint account then if this was made joint within the 7 yeras you will need to account for the gift in some way.
Don't suppose there was anything in the will about previous gifts either.

getmore4less

Sally1973 wrote: »

Thanks Googler that was my point yes, however it looks as though that money was not part of the estate as it was in joint account with my cousin. As long as I know where I stand.

~ thanks for standing up for me though

Even if you decide a Joint account it may be possible to include the share passed by survivorship as part of the total share, probably depends on the exact wording of the will

Sally1973

Gosh thanks Getmore4less, now I'm all muddled up again!

There was nothing in the will about the account being joint as it wasn't at the time ~ this was done within a year or so.

I have all the bank statements going back years on the account to prove where it all came from, and I also have emails from my cousin confiming that he put none of the money in. Most of it is lifelong savings and some was inheritance from a distant relative of my aunts.

I'm scared of including the money already taken in the account as part of their percentage share as things will really kick off and then there's no going back. Really unsure of what to do, wish I wasn't involved.

getmore4less

Sally1973 wrote: »

Gosh thanks Getmore4less, now I'm all muddled up again!

There was nothing in the will about the account being joint as it wasn't at the time ~ this was done within a year or so.

I have all the bank statements going back years on the account to prove where it all came from, and I also have emails from my cousin confiming that he put none of the money in. Most of it is lifelong savings and some was inheritance from a distant relative of my aunts.

I'm scared of including the money already taken in the account as part of their percentage share as things will really kick off and then there's no going back. Really unsure of what to do, wish I wasn't involved.

One of the down sides to agreeing to be an Executor.

Mind you the alterative in this case would probably be the Son

Also shows how important it is to keep wills uptodate with changing circumstances

I guess this account holds significant amounts.

If this was made joint recently then almost certain it needs to be included on the HMRC form somewhere since it amounts to a significant asset removed from the estate.

I think you will need to go back to your legal advisors or get a second opinion elsewhere(proper legal one). Based on what you have said and I have read in the guidance and elsewhere thats what I would have to do.

I would also probably call the HMRC help line for advice on the IHTR205 form for this item(or the other form if doing a full return).

Paul_Herring

About a year or so before she died she put her sons name on her savings account and made it a joint account with him in order for him to manage her account and keep his eye on it through computer banking (he lives a long way away) to make sure she wasn't being 'diddled' by anyone at any point.

[...]None of the money was put in by him which he has admitted.

Since 1 year is a lot less than 7 years, is any inheritance tax due on the sum he was given by dint of being party to that joint account?

syorkshirelass

My brother and I were left my mums house when she unexpectedly died last year. Her husband, is able to live in the house until he either dies or remarries. He was abusive to my mother even when she was dying, punched me several times whilst looking after my mum. He never paid a penny into the home....my brother and I helped financially with mortgage payments etc when Mum first divorced before marrying him. To cut a very long story short, he is living in our house, still not paying a penny when I am to be made redundant so money will be an issue shortly. He will not spend any of his money on maintenance work. It is over a year since mum died and we havent even sorted her clothes etc out yet. My brother and I are left with a big mess and lots of unanswered questions. My mum wanted everything to have gone to her children and grandchildren but unfortunately her will, which she had to keep hidden for fear of him burning it therefore he would have got the lot, said that he could live there. I really dont know what to do anymore. The worst bit is not even being able to go to the house and sort thro mums belongings etc The only time when we went after mum died, he had replaced her photograph with his first wifes ! The man is really horrible and I say this because he is, not because I am greedy for what will be ours sometime in the future anyway. I just wished that my mum had renewed her will, origional made 15 years ago, and left a copy with the solicitor who she worked for.
I dont seem able to move on with my life whilst everything is as it is. Any thoughts from others would be appreciated.