The only way out of debt

bendix

It's a shame, because he seems like a nice lad. A bit dim and earnest perhaps, but what can you expect from yoof today.

Unfortunately for him, our resident nutters / doom merchants Asheron, Digger and amclueless weren't around - he might have got a better reception had they been.

Masomnia

samclam wrote: »

Either you didn't hear it right, you heard something different or you didn't understand it. But it's not the slightest bit nonsense. It's complete sense, just most people aren't familiar with it.

How difficult is it to understand that our money is created as debt by bank lending and that it could just be created as 'money' without interest or repayment via the Bank of England?

I mean, come on how hard is that?

Erm, because if money couldn't be lent out at interest then no one would bother, so no one could start businesses or buy houses?

samclam

StevieJ wrote: »

What was the joke? BTW I repeat where is your video?

Don't know, but the video is at https://www.youtube.com/Call4Reform

samclam

Masomnia wrote: »

Erm, because if money couldn't be lent out at interest then no one would bother, so no one could start businesses or buy houses?

See what I mean. You don't actually get what they are saying. Instead of banks lending money the Bank of England prints up the same amount of money and puts it into the economy.

Same overall amount of cash but no debt. That's the whole point!

Masomnia

samclam wrote: »

See what I mean. You don't actually get what they are saying. Instead of banks lending money the Bank of England prints up the same amount of money and puts it into the economy.

Same overall amount of cash but no debt. That's the whole point!

I should probably read it more carefully...

I don't see how it gets to people if it isn't given to banks to lend out. And if it does get to people, who do they owe it to?

ninky_2

samclam wrote: »

Looks like people don't want to engage many brain cells today. Ironic that a site dedicated to 'saving money' isn't interested in how debt is forced on us.

sorry but anything that doesn't involve endlessly discussing whether houseprices are going up or down is not deemed worthy of consideration on here.

yes the issue you raise has been raised before. however, it's still worthy of discussion not ridicule imho.

if you can somehow interweave the concepts of 'bull', 'bear' and 'hpi' into it you might get somewhere...

samclam

bendix wrote: »

It's a shame, because he seems like a nice lad. A bit dim and earnest perhaps, but what can you expect from yoof today.

Unfortunately for him, our resident nutters / doom merchants Asheron, Digger and amclueless weren't around - he might have got a better reception had they been.

I still think you're trying to stick me in one bracket without really looking at the point I'm trying to make.

I'd accept it if you said it was a boring techno finance subject and that the world will always be screwed one way or another.

tomterm8

samclam wrote: »

Either you didn't hear it right, you heard something different or you didn't understand it. But it's not the slightest bit nonsense. It's complete sense, just most people aren't familiar with it.

How difficult is it to understand that our money is created as debt by bank lending and that it could just be created as 'money' without interest or repayment via the Bank of England?

I mean, come on hard is that?

I understand that. Debt is what makes the monetary system work. If you were to rely on the Bank of England printing precisely the right amount of money so that assets are efficiently allocated, you might as well go the whole hog and change to a communist society. The reason capitalism works is that banks allocate resources efficiently... that is, banks allocate money so that it makes them as much money as possible.

If they fail to allocate money efficiently, their competitors will eat them alive.

It's called capitalism, baby.

bendix

Now dont go bursting his idealistic bubble tomterm. That's just cruel.

samclam

Masomnia wrote: »

I should probably read it more carefully...

I don't see how it gets to people if it isn't given to banks to lend out. And if it does get to people, who do they owe it to?

Ok now we're getting somewhere.

There are various ways of distributing the cash:

• Use it to pay for wages in the public sector.
• Use it to pay for schools, hospitals, roads, etc.
• You could give so much to banks to distribute to small business after completing viability checks etc.
• You could even just give a windfall payment to everyone.

The beauty of it is no one owes it to anybody! That just shows how habituated we are to the current debt system.

More importantly the Government wouldn't need to waste around 30% of our tax revenue just paying the interest on the national debt! We as regular people wouldn't waste say 20% of our earnings paying interest on loans. That's huge savings for us all.

It get's even better because we also wouldn't need to pay taxes, at least not for the sake of raising government revenue.

ninky wrote: »

yes the issue you raise has been raised before. however, it's still worthy of discussion not ridicule imho.

if you can somehow interweave the concepts of 'bull', 'bear' and 'hpi' into it you might get somewhere...

As for House prices, well they wouldn't get so inflated in price, they'd be more affordable from the outset. As for bear and bull markets, the economic cycle would become much more stable. The inability to pay off both the interest and the original loan under our current fraction reserve banking system makes a very unstable economy. That's why we experience booms as the system over inflates to create new capital to pay off old debts and inevitably busts as loan payments default. Not sure how to bring HPI into it other than we wouldn't have to spend so much time worrying about it.