The Money Shop - irresponsible lending?

Tee-Es

CHR15 wrote: »

As BROCK mentioned above, you want them all to have a Nanny watching over them. [...]

Actually, that is not what I want. I'd rather have the money shop owner to run their business in an ethical and responsible manner (not just to themselves but to everybody else as well) and make the decision themselves not to lend to certain vulnerable people (in the same way that a corner shop owner does not sell fags or booze to underaged)! Likewise, I'd rather have people that see sense and realise that excessive debt is bad for them and society as a whole.

ZZR600 wrote: »

I'd hope that one way for a business to make money is to provide a product that creates wealth not only for the business but the country as a whole. [...] Making money out of money helps no one on the end. It creates a business environment where real wealth creation migrates [...] and we are left servicing unsustainable debt.

I would agree on that. Effectively, these loan companies go into areas that are a bit deprived already and then syphon off some more without creating anything useful. I'd even go as far and say that (whilst they may not benefit much either) they cause economic and social damage to the area they are in rather than benefit.

This website is full of people that ask for advice on debt and debt management, and, in general, they are being given good advice and help, and that's great!! I am sure many people benefit greatly from this and have managed increase their quality of life.

All I have tried to do is question some of the fundamentals. I have taken the points made to me but I am quite astonished that hardly anybody agrees with the points I have tried to convey! But hey, we have got a discussion...

CLAPTON

Tee-Es wrote: »

Actually, that is not what I want. I'd rather have the money shop owner to run their business in an ethical and responsible manner (not just to themselves but to everybody else as well) and make the decision themselves not to lend to certain vulnerable people (in the same way that a corner shop owner does not sell fags or booze to underaged)! Likewise, I'd rather have people that see sense and realise that excessive debt is bad for them and society as a whole.



I would agree on that. Effectively, these loan companies go into areas that are a bit deprived already and then syphon off some more without creating anything useful. I'd even go as far and say that (whilst they may not benefit much either) they cause economic and social damage to the area they are in rather than benefit.

This website is full of people that ask for advice on debt and debt management, and, in general, they are being given good advice and help, and that's great!! I am sure many people benefit greatly from this and have managed increase their quality of life.

All I have tried to do is question some of the fundamentals. I have taken the points made to me but I am quite astonished that hardly anybody agrees with the points I have tried to convey! But hey, we have got a discussion...

maybe if you proposed workable sensible solutions then a better debate could be had but sadly the road to hell is paved with good intentions and simple niave solutions often cause more misery that that original problem

no-one here LIKES payday loans but that very very different from banning them.

CLAPTON

ZZR600 wrote: »

I'd hope that one way for a business to make money is to provide a product that creates wealth not only for the business but the country as a whole. The UK has become an expert at creating non-jobs and parasitic enterprises than benefit no one but a few people who are clever at finance and marketing. Making money out of money helps no one on the end. It creates a business environment where real wealth creation migrates overseas (because making 'stuff' actually does require effort and some brains) and we are left servicing unsustainable debt.

well a matter of opinion

making things..
lmining things like asbestos and coal
making leaded petrol
armaments
cars / planes that pollute
drugs that harm
creating huge amounts of waste

etc

difficult to see that financial services are that much worse than manufacturing industry

Tee-Es

CLAPTON wrote: »

maybe if you proposed workable sensible solutions then a better debate could be had but sadly the road to hell is paved with good intentions and simple niave solutions often cause more misery that that original problem

no-one here LIKES payday loans but that very very different from banning them.

I didn't actually suggest banning them nor did I offer any solution (bar a few suggestions on who they should and should not lend to) but I did and do question whether such companies act ethically and responsibly or contribute anything positive to society or the economy. Well, at least there's a debate, and it's become a bit emotive, too

I see there are plenty of threads here on other companies, such as Yes Loans, Beneficial Claims, Payday UK etc., and the problems people have with them. It seems an entire industry exists whose only purpose seems to be to make money from money by whatever means necessary and (apparently) without any ethic principles so maybe we need a debate on the fundamentals of these lending entities...

ILW

The world would be a better place if everybody was nice to each other, sadly it is not practical.

Fang_3

Tee-Es wrote: »

I didn't actually suggest banning them nor did I offer any solution (bar a few suggestions on who they should and should not lend to) but I did and do question whether such companies act ethically and responsibly or contribute anything positive to society or the economy. Well, at least there's a debate, and it's become a bit emotive, too

I see there are plenty of threads here on other companies, such as Yes Loans, Beneficial Claims, Payday UK etc., and the problems people have with them. It seems an entire industry exists whose only purpose seems to be to make money from money by whatever means necessary and (apparently) without any ethic principles so maybe we need a debate on the fundamentals of these lending entities...

Do you live on a commune?

redpete

Tee-Es wrote: »

All I have tried to do is question some of the fundamentals. I have taken the points made to me but I am quite astonished that hardly anybody agrees with the points I have tried to convey! But hey, we have got a discussion...

Congrats on not moaning about rude people on the forum and going off in a huff never to be seen again.

There are 2 separate issues here:

First the 'high' APR figures for these loans, the one you quoted is a lot lower than the ones that people usually get upset about (like here, or here). The APR quoted includes the fixed costs of setting up a loan, these won't be much different for a £100 loan for 1 month and £10k over 8 years. The profit required by the lender will also be relatively high to cover the risk of this type of loan (charges won't help if the borrower can't or won't pay back anything).

The other issue is whether it is 'right' that these types of loans should be available to people who don't understand that a short term fix will only make the longer-term problem worse. For some people they are useful and can be coped with - e.g. a sudden cost maybe to fix a car that come during a high-spending month that genuinely needs a short-term loan to cover. Any standard credit check is probably pointless, those who can pay it back within the month could well not score any differnt than those who can't. Credit Unions or similar provided on a local basis from within the community would be great, but they will often rely on volunteers who are thin on the ground.

Tee-Es

redpete wrote: »

Congrats on not moaning about rude people on the forum and going off in a huff never to be seen again.

There are 2 separate issues here:

First the 'high' APR figures for these loans, the one you quoted is a lot lower than the ones that people usually get upset about (like here, or here). [...]

The other issue is whether it is 'right' that these types of loans should be available to people who don't understand that a short term fix will only make the longer-term problem worse. For some people they are useful and can be coped with [...]. Credit Unions or similar provided on a local basis from within the community would be great, but they will often rely on volunteers who are thin on the ground.

Thanks for your constructive post and the links. In one of them, somebody quotes an EU regulation that limits APRs. Not a bad idea IMHO. I like the pint example on APRs as well

In another post, somebody describes their experience with default charges and late fees, and yet another poster describes the method of loan sharks effectively taking everything off people that have defaulted on a high APR loan!

I stick by what I say: these companies actually cause more harm than good. They thrive in a system that has found more and more ways of financially engineering money out of money. That despite the fact that, as you say, there will be examples where people take out necessary loans, use them wisely and can handle the repayments.

~Brock~

Tee-Es wrote: »

I stick by what I say: these companies actually cause more harm than good. They thrive in a system that has found more and more ways of financially engineering money out of money. That despite the fact that, as you say, there will be examples where people take out necessary loans, use them wisely and can handle the repayments.

Whilst we are all obviously entitled to our opinions, I also stick by what I say in that I still find your Nanny-knows-best attitude offensive.

By all means bemoan the situation as it stands, but don't expect to be taken seriously until you offer a reasoned and workable alternative.

No monument was ever erected in memory of a critic.

CHR15

Sabastian6 wrote: »

people need to understand these payday loans are businesses trying to provide a service, and they should be compensated for taking risks on people no one else will lend to…

I'm sure I have responded to one of your equally pointless first posts about how long it would take you to build your post count before :spam:ming the board.

Reported for Signature :spam: