What has happenned to people's character?

tealady

Sometimes we are trapped by circumstances, sometimes by ourselves.
For example if someone has to rent a poorly insulated property then they will pay a disproportionate part of their income for their heating an lighting.
An addict (of anything) will put their adiction 1st.
I feel there has never been a "perfect" time however the happiest people I have ever met seem to subscribe to the philosophy of "true happiness lies in wanting what you have, not in having what you want". I wish I could remember where I read that (many years ago, and it took years for the truth to sink in).

barbiedoll

I think that banks and estate agents have to shoulder a lot of the blame for the so-called credit crunch. The house prices in this country have risen beyond the means of most people, and if you live in a big city, renting is worse. When my parents bought their house, it was with a mortgage that was affordable on one wage, my mum didn't go to work until we were at school and then she worked part-time to help to pay the bills. Suddenly, in the 80's, house prices rose inexplicably, often by thousands in a matter of weeks for no discernible reason. It wasn't like there was a sudden shortage of housing, but it seemed that the estate agents could name a price, the higher the better, because there was always someone was clamouring to buy it. I was married to my first husband at the time and we owned a house, the value of which seemed to fluctuate daily. People then, as now, thought that because their house value had risen, they were suddenly better off and they were encouraged to borrow against the property. This was also the time of the big utility sell-offs, I can remember people checking their share prices in the newspaper and rejoicing because they had made several hundred pounds, on paper. They just didn't seem to realise that even if your house is worth a fortune, you still have to have somewhere to live. And the possibility of falling house and share prices just didn't occur to them. Many people back then made a fortune with shares and property but many also fell victim to repossession when they realised that all the borrowing had to be paid back. The media then, as now, were full of the aspirational lifestyles we were all supposed to hanker after. It's even worse now, plastic surgery, laser eye treatment, two-week long stag and hen parties, £2000 designer handbags, a never-ending stream of tat on which to waste your money. Nothing really changes, as someone said, greed seems to be embedded in our culture.

Marisco

Your post Barbie, reminds me of a lass I worked with in the 80's. She came to work one day - when all this house price malarky went mad - and said she was getting her bungalow valued, she'd been there for years, so I asked her if she was moving, she said no, she just wanted to see how much it was worth now. I said to her that it was pretty pointless if she wasn't moving, and she just didn't see it!! But she was the type who would go around saying her place was now worth £xxxx!! Wrinkles is right, it is just greed with a bit of snobbery thrown in!! I saw a sig somewhere, might have been on the forum, which said "Don't keep up with the Joneses, drag them down to your level, its cheaper" I like it:)

Orpheo

Mags30 wrote: »

While I do agree with the sentiment of your post I have to add that it's not always spending on unnecessary things that gets people into debt.

Do you expect somebody to save up for medical or dental treatment or a plumber? Some things are urgent.

I don't have savings to cover such things because after I've paid my mortgage and bills there is almost nothing left. It has happened in the past that I've used my credit card to buy groceries because all of the money in my account was needed to cover the direct debits for the bills. I would rather buy groceries with a credit card than let a bill go unpaid. At least that way I don't damage my credit rating.

I would love to save money but I don't have any to save. From reading diaries on here it's clear that many others are in the same position as me.

I did have savings once and I spent all of it on the deposit for my house.

Mags. Part of "owning" or rather being a mortgagee on a house is being able to cope with the financial reality that the house will need maintaining. The boiler will need servicing and at some point will need repairing, there will be other plumbing jobs, the roof will need maintaining, the place will need redecorating every so often, fixtures and fittings will be subject to wear and tear and will need to be maintained, appliances will break down, etc. "Owning your own home" is an expensive business. If you can't account for these things without borrowing then you can't really afford to own your own home. Shortly before I sold my house I had a plumbing/heating repair bill of £1000, but it was something that I felt I ought to get sorted out so that the buyer wasn't lumped with a nasty surprise. I paid for it with savings. Savings that I made regularly each month to cover me in the case of unexpected bills. If you can't account for these things then you can't afford to buy a house. Why make debt repayments retrospectively when you can make savings in advance? After selling my house, I'm currently renting, and while I'm looking to buy, the overall annual cost of renting is significantly less than the overall annual cost of being a mortgagee.

Nottoobadyet

Very sensible, Orpheo. The UK property ownership craze (get one whether you can afford it or not, whether you have a deposit or not!) has a lot to answer for as well.

Its amazing how many people come onto the boards wailing that they cant get a mortgage because they have just defaulted on all their debts, have no savings and cant meet their outgoings, as if a mortgage was a right for everyone regardless of circumstance.

Hannah_10

I think when I look at people overspending (and a sadly high proportion of people I know do) that the worst offenders are the people who are insecure about who they are and what they mean in the world. Modern culture bombards us with the idea that not to conform to the ideals is to be failling, but never reminds us to stop and look at how many of our role-models aren't ideal either. When you look around you find many people you like or look up to who are imperfect but we're discouraged from doing that.

I found myself wondering about tooth whitening the other day and had to stop myself. I'm thousands in debt, where on Earth did the idea I "need" unnatural teeth come from? On reflection it came from having a "fat day", a day when you feel just generally down on yourself. There lurk the advertising men, ready to tell me that I am indeed imperfect but that for a few hundred quid they can make me happy. If I don't have a few hundred quid that's OK, they can organise the credit right now (so I don't have to save for months and possibly change my mind half way through). I can't open my post, read my email, turn on the TV or radio (except BBC), open a magazine, or walk through the town without viewing messages carefully designed to tell me that indeed I am imperfect but for the sake of a few hundred someone will make it all go away. They are selling wantedness, popularity, belonging.

That's why over spending perpetuates. We're all living more and more isolated lives, away from the extended famillies people have lived within for millennia. The fall out is this pervasive, culturally encouraged doubt of our self worth which reinforces the idea that the hole in our soul can be filled with material things, that attractiveness to others brings the popularity we need. I think this nation is basically lonely. We all have a need to feel loved and in the modern world instead of meeting that through a network of unconditional attatchments we buy it, in our isolated frozen ready meals for one and our status symbol cars. We are all guilty of this to a greater or lesser degree, but the more insecure and vulnerable (which includes many of the young) are doing it most.

Of course I don't need my teeth whitened. I would save Stephen Fry from a house fire before Orlando Bloom, which ought to tell me something about what I really value when it comes to the crunch. I think if we stopped long enough to even have a mug of tea and ponder it we could all find examples of imperfect people who were worth more to us than the perfect people we are encouraged to emulate. Perhaps we need to remind ourselves of that sometimes. I consider it an important part of parenting to counter-culture my children in the difference between glitter and gold, just as the salesmen of the capitalistic times we live in will be putting every effort into the opposite.

WRINKLES

In my opinion people have been brainwashed by advertiseing and propaganda designed by companies who are experts at confusing us to the point of not understanding the difference beetween WHAT WE WANT and WHAT WE NEED .untill people realise this they will be led holding their children by the hand into eating places who have a clown as a frontman or banks all chanting the same mantra yea yea yea , then get fleeced . lambs to the slaughter.

goingforward_3

We were stupid and spent too much not particulary on the latests cars, tv's etc but on stupid stuff i guess, but everything was fine and we were paying the debts back...

then last yr on holiday my husband woke up with a stiff neck... fast forward 3 mths he could barely walk and took 20 mins to get out of bed etc meaning he couldnt work as much.. it took a full 12 months to get a proper diagnosis (psoratic arthritus) and to begin chemo treatment... things were further complicated by a huge cyst on his thryoid resulting in his thryoid beginning removed last November and another month of work . Now for the past 12 yrs he had been paying into a insurance policy about £40 a month... they refused to pay out on the grounds that 14 yrs ago he had similar symptoms to the arthritus. but it was diagnosed possibly as high protein in the blood. Looking back yes he probably did have arthritus back then but we didnt know this.

Now after struggling on for months and months we are going down the DMP route... yes some of its stupidity but its not entirely all our fault.

WRINKLES

goingforward wrote: »

We were stupid and spent too much not particulary on the latests cars, tv's etc but on stupid stuff i guess, but everything was fine and we were paying the debts back...

then last yr on holiday my husband woke up with a stiff neck... fast forward 3 mths he could barely walk and took 20 mins to get out of bed etc meaning he couldnt work as much.. it took a full 12 months to get a proper diagnosis (psoratic arthritus) and to begin chemo treatment... things were further complicated by a huge cyst on his thryoid resulting in his thryoid beginning removed last November and another month of work . Now for the past 12 yrs he had been paying into a insurance policy about £40 a month... they refused to pay out on the grounds that 14 yrs ago he had similar symptoms to the arthritus. but it was diagnosed possibly as high protein in the blood. Looking back yes he probably did have arthritus back then but we didnt know this.

Now after struggling on for months and months we are going down the DMP route... yes some of its stupidity but its not entirely all our fault.

I am speaking about people in general, sorry to hear about your husband , I know how you feel i was diagnosed with non hodgkins lymphoma some time back ,i had six lotts of chaemotherapy , fortuneatelly the treatment worked ,i am now back to full health , keep your chin up and good luck.

FlyBoy

MAGS30: you should not have bought a house if you could not afford to run it and other things you KNEW you had to do with your life. If you cannot save or keep savings for things that might go wrong in the house you have bought, then you were a fool for buying it. You knew that you would need the dentist at some point in your life when you bought the house, so yet again having no money for the dentist is YOUR own fault for buying the house. Medical is free , NHS. You made a bad decision when you decided to buy the house, and like so many people you are not prepared to accept your own failings. Admitting one's mistakes is a sign of maturity and honesty; being honesty with and to yourself. Think about it MAGS30.

WINKLES: we can still have capitalism without CC and Store Card debt; I remember the days before ANY CC were issued and we had capitlalism then, just smaller. My thread is NOT about the banking crisis, banking debt but about peoples personally lack of backbone. Whether we are in a recession, stability or boom, high personal debt other than for needs, i.e. affordable mortgage, affordable loans for absolute needs, car for work for example, high personal debt that CANNOT be cleared every month is a severe problem and a failling of an individuals character and intellectual thought process. The CC companies still make their 1.5% - 2.5% on the transaction even if the consumer pays off all the debt every month.
If you cant afford something don't buy it; affording the minimum monthly repayment is NOT "I can afford it". You are not entitled to anything on this planet, except perhaps your human rights.
Your first reply is entirely wrong.
Second reply: Greed is a BAD thing, WINKLES, and it's a big human failing when people succum to it.

CLAPTON, Orpheo, Hannah_10: Well said!

Finally: I wonder how many people who are in debt problems still have Sky/cable TV, a mobile phone regardless or PAYG or monthly contract, a car they don't need, a subscription they don't need, a night out once a week with the girls/boys, a holiday once a year that they seem to think they are entitled to and cannot go without.........? None of my list are needed :mad:.