Sorry another CCA question

jaynemaria

First of all please let me say I'm not trying to get out of paying this debt.

Brief history, had an account with Next for a few years, no problems, I was taken ill three years ago and am now classed as disabled, explained all this to them and they allowed me to pay £25 per month. Fast forward this May we had some trouble with our bank where the DD was cancelled by mistake, The first thing we knew about it was when I had a letter from a DCA with regard the debt, I phoned the bank and sorted the problem then phoned Next straight up to make the payment, but they said they had already closed the account. The DCA wanted a lot more money than I was paying Next and we just cant afford it.

Now this really annoyed me as I wasnt given any notice and it was a genuine error, so I sent them a request for my CCA, and I had this reply

Dear ******

I'm sorry - we dont have your original signed credit agreement on file, so were unable to send it to you. But I have eclosed a True copy of your credit agreement along with a copy of the current version.

This is sufficient under section 78 if the Consumer Credit Act and the True copy contains all the prescribed terms. I also need to let you know that a True copy doesnt need to be and exact copy of photocopy of the Executed version. It just needs to contain everything that was in the original agreement apart from the sections that were included for our own benefit and signatures.

A deed of assignment hasnt been issued because although your account has been passed on to a Debt Collection Agency, (to try to recover the outstanding balance) it hasnt actually been sold to a third party.

Now that we have sent you all the information youve asked for there isnt a dispute with the balance of the account itself we will continue to contact you for payment. But I do appreciate you giving me the opportunity to explain our position and I hope you feel satisfied that I have answere your concerns.

Now the CCA they have sent me does not have my signature on anywhere nor date. Is this still enforcable without signatures etc as I cant see how I can check this was actually valid when I started using them.

Thanks in advance

Jayne

NorthernLas

Have a look at the flow charts in enforcebility III thread and the letters in enforceability IV

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2305463

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2532927

My understanding is that the creditor must be able to provide a copy of the orignal agreemennt for it to be enforceable.

jaynemaria

Thanks for the reply, I have had a good look through your links and they are very helpful.

Still unsure of my next move though, as in the letter, they have admitted they dont have a copy of my signed agreement on file, any ideas what to do next anyone

jaynemaria

Anyone please?

DarkConvict

A copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points, but cannot be a conjectured reconstruction.
If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody would know what was in the original

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=26314295&postcount=4

You could state to them, that if they do not have the original then how can you be sure the copy provided is a true copy. Whilst the date/signature may be omitted, the terms cannot be significantly varied.

Have a look at this template letter http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=30356133&postcount=14

mr.ton

Complete bullsh*t by them.
It needs to be the original agreement with your signature.
No CCA = no payments = end of.
Report them to the OFT & trading standards.

DarkConvict

Take mr.ton advice cautiously, he seems to be on several posts to actively insisting on people making rash decisions.

mr.ton

DarkConvict wrote: »

Take mr.ton advice cautiously, he seems to be on several posts to actively insisting on people making rash decisions.

On the contrary...i would ask those who are getting the "just pay up" advice off certain members to be more cautious :cool:

DarkConvict

Failure to provide the CCA is not a reportable offence to the OFT/Trading Standards.

The OFT acknowledge that the debt is still owed, even if no agreement is found. http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/loans/2010/01/oft-warning-over-debt-write-off-claims

In the case a true copy is provided, it is indeed open to interpretation as without the original you cannot verify if it really is a true copy, but legally they do not have to provide it.
The option is open to SAR the original creditor for it.
Exact copies do not have to be provided - http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/loans/2009/12/high-court-ends-debt-avoidance-loophole

Failure to pay debts will mean late payment markers and defaults. And if they do have the original copy they can take out a CCJ to secure the debt for failure to pay.

jaynemaria

DarkConvict wrote: »

Failure to provide the CCA is not a reportable offence to the OFT/Trading Standards.

The OFT acknowledge that the debt is still owed, even if no agreement is found. http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/loans/2010/01/oft-warning-over-debt-write-off-claims

In the case a true copy is provided, it is indeed open to interpretation as without the original you cannot verify if it really is a true copy, but legally they do not have to provide it.
The option is open to SAR the original creditor for it.
Exact copies do not have to be provided - http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/loans/2009/12/high-court-ends-debt-avoidance-loophole



Failure to pay debts will mean late payment markers and defaults. And if they do have the original copy they can take out a CCJ to secure the debt for failure to pay.

Thankyou for this advice, I did SAR them and then another letter for the CCA, and this was their response with the unsigned agreement saying they had no original.

Im in no way trying to avoid the debt, just want to have a bit of something to throw back at them to allow me to continue making the same payments I was making to them.

DarkConvict

I would try and argue you are not happy with the agreement provided, and are not confident it is been executed as originally agreed, since without an original copy it is not possible to verify the supplied copy is indeed a "true" copy. However you acknowledge you have used the service and money is outstanding, so are willing to make payments of £xx on the debt in order to make way into paying it off completely and bring the matter to a close.