Money Moral Dilemma: Should the school have paid?

Fred_the_Needle

Unfortunately the school can't do this as schools are not allowed to charge for trips, shows (for the kids) etc.

However, it is abused by a lot of parents who just can't be bothered to contribute anything to the school which as a parent to 3 (now grown up) and step parent to 3 (only one still at school) annoys the hell out of me. The example doesn't give any details so we can't say whether the parents were poor or just tight.

I'll point out that I live now in an affluent part of North Yorkshire and the tight fistedness of the parents here in general makes me long for my roots in a pretty run down part of the South East where the parents did contribute. In my experience, the poorest parents tend to contact the schools asap to arrange something so their kids wouldn't miss out. This sounds more like an example of "couldn't be bothered"

shikor

yes, the school should have paid. the family could be experiencing finncial difficulties.

YeOldOne

If the play takes place on school premises and in school time then the school cannot ask for payment.

They can ask for donations from parents to help but that is a totally different thing.

neilpost

oldnewhand wrote: »

Writing as a recently retired teacher my understanding is as yours, the charge is a voluntary contribution, as this ia all that can be asked for. Others have mentioned IF it's part of the curriculum; if the performance is during the school day then it should be part of the curriculum. The large primary school in which I taught always budgetted a little over the actual cost to cover none paying pupils. Parents experiencing financial difficulty were always free to discuss this privately with the head and were encouraged to make whatever donation (if any) they felt able to make. As teachers we did try to find affordable venues but it was usually the coach that cost an awful lot of money even when we timed it to fit in with the coach company's school runs to get a cheaper rate.
During my whole career only once was a trip cancelled due to lack of funds. This was due to a significant group of "savvy" parents pleading poverty and others jumping on the freebie band wagon so sufficent revenue was not raised. On some occasions a small shortfall would be funded by the school, but on this occasion the situation snowballed out of hand due to greed rather than need. A few super parents would actually make an additional voluntary donation (not necessarily those who could most afford it either).
The teacher's biggest nightmare was getting parents to sign the consent form without which we could not take the child on a trip. Unfortunately my school did not have one blanket trip consent form; each and every trip had one and usually the day prior to the trip you had to try and establish contact with the last few parents to get the signature.

You would be surprised at the various buckets of funding that are set aside to pay for various things for poor chikldren. The bottom line is, if you get free meals/transport the kids need never pay for anything. It's also 'kept confidential', so that nobody ever knows.

You end up with for days out etc..

1. Poor kids, funded by budgets for the needy
2. !!!!!!!!!! parents who refuse to pay
3. Everyone else, who repeatedly get shaken down for money all the time

That being said, if there is a genuine need and no other funding going, you can normally get money from the PTA/School friends. I'm the chair of the PTA at my daughters school, and we get a request and paid the £500 hire cost for a coach so thet all of year 6 could go to the British Museum before XMAS, or the trip was cancelled....

Kiko4564

scotsbob wrote: »

Maybe the parents didn't want their children to see the show and that's why they didn't buy tickets.

Suppose it had been 40 children instead of 4, should the school still cover the costs?

if they don't have tickets they don't go,

I would agree, if that was the case. If not I would have the school pay.

relaxtwotribes

neilpost wrote: »

I'm the chair of the PTA at my daughters school, and we get a request and paid the £500 hire cost for a coach so thet all of year 6 could go to the British Museum before XMAS, or the trip was cancelled....

Why? What had the children done so wrong?

neilpost

maz2702 wrote: »

from being a PTA member and a parent standing in the pay ground there a number of parents who did not pay just because of the wording "voluntary" who can more than afford it, as a result in the past 2 years 5 school trips have had to be cancelled as not even a quarter of the parents who are deemed to be able to afford the £2.50 (example amount) requested have paid.

......

the understanding is, the PTA already uses a lot of their funds to pay for these trips and from year 5 it is understood the child has to learn at some point that not everything is free = some of you shout BUT SOME CAN NOT AFFORD IT = however when parents are told you pay or your child can not go it is surprising how many of those families (apart from a select few) can actually stump up the money!

Don't forget most PTA's are technically outside of a schools administration/governance structure. They are generally charitable committee's with volunteers, raising money for stuff the school often struggle to cover with capital or revenue budget. They aren't answerable to the school, headteacher or board of governors, (though are to the Charities Commission ). They generally co-exist, at arm's length with the school, though keeping the school janitor/caretaker 'on side' is a must !

--

Would be helpful if more schools also were more on board with being able to pay for more stuff via Childcare Voucher schemes, whereby parents benefit from the money being salary deducted before tax/NI.

It would also be helpful, if the breadth of what you could pay for via 'Tax Free' via childcare voucher schemes was broadened

- School meals
- School transport (for those out of catchment)
- School uniform (mainly logo'd stuff you can only get through school)
- All school contributions, whether voluntary or not

Whilst we are not 'free meals or free transport poor', I would not consider us well off, and having a School uniform change foisted on us this summer by the (unaccountable) Board of Governors (who thought it was a good idea), is around £150-£200 for x2 kids we are struggling to afford

KLS64

Hello, This is the first time I have posted a thread as I normally just read them but I felt I had to write and put my experience across. I have 4 children, and only one left at school now. I have always paid for school trips, books, helped with fetes etc for more than 18 years. However my financial circumstance changed when I was made redundant after a terrible accident a a year ago and have been unable to work since.

My son would bring home letters asking for VOLUNTARY contributions towards this trip, or a show, or books or talks and once even being asked to pay for someone to come to the school and give a talk on nothing whatsoever to do with schooling or the school curriculum. Most of the time I have scraped together the money and paid but on the odd occasion I have been able to. Sometimes they ask for £12, £15 etc not small amounts.

Because I did not pay My son was made to feel small and embarrassed and belittled in front of his classmates and friends. If you do not pay the teacher reminds the class, then a few days later if you still have not paid, your name is called out in front of the class and you are told 'Your parent has not paid for this trip if they do not pay you will not be able to go', you will have to stay behind whilst all the others go and have fun' how would that make you feel as a parent, and what is VOLUNTARY about that?????. Its not as if they do not know the situation as I had already written and explained.

Now I often find letters in my son's bag that he has kept in there deliberately because they are asking for money, when I asked him why 'he replied I did not want you to worry about it, never mind the fact of how he feels he is more concerned about me.

So schools if you put VOLUNTARY mean it dont pressure the kids right up until the day of the trip.

By the way my son goes to school in HAMPSHIRE.

POPPYOSCAR

slibs wrote: »

How many parents stood and watched these 4 children being segregated through no fault of the children? ...If that was me ..I would have paid the £20 for the 4 children out of my own pocket ......what if it was 20 children ??? Then I would have asked all the other parents for a whip round ....I have accompanied children on school trips (as a helper parent ) and seen kids who have no pocket money to spend on the gift shop...and paid it myself !! I just cant bear the look on their faces !! Am I mug ?? ...what comes around goes around so the money I give away always comes back to me somehow !! ...I dont think you should not let these children see the play on the grounds that the parents had religious or cultural objecitons ...if thats the case the parents should have written in with their objections not just ignored the letters ...

No you are not a mug.

You are a kind compassionate person who can see that it is not the fault of the children. If everyone were more like you the world would be a better place.

BigMummaF

KLS64 wrote: »

....So schools if you put VOLUNTARY mean it dont pressure the kids right up until the day of the trip....

Exactly!
I think I would write to the Head & the Governors about this kind of unacceptable behaviour from the Staff--it's no different from those ruddy door-to-door/
telephone sales people :mad:
And buy them a dictionary with the definition of VOLUNTARY underlined, high-lighted & on every page