CCA Request

cycloneuk

I made a request for a copy of my CCA for a credit card taken out in 2001, just received some nonsense and a set of the latest terms from HSBC.

I have sent the 2nd template letter today and be interesting to see if they provide it.

Blahah

What was the 'nonsense'?

cycloneuk

Blahah wrote: »

What was the 'nonsense'?

See below.

Further to your recent letter dated 5th July, please find enclosed copy documents as agreed.

Section 78 (1) of the consumer credit act 1974 requires us to provide ''...a copy of the executed agreement...". Regulation 3 (2) of the consumer credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents ) Regulations 1983 allows that certain items may be omitted from such copies, including the signature box and signature.

Therefor, the copy of the executed agreement we must supply is a copy but need not be a photocopy of the signed agreement. Regulation 7 of those regulations also requires us to provide a copy of the executed agreement, as varied, where there is a power to vary the terms of the agreement, which there is with this card agreement and that power has been exercised to vary the agreement, which again is the case with this card agreement.

We therefor enclose an up to date copy of the terms and conditions applicable to this account, a copy of the latest variation notice issued in respect of this account and a reconstituted copy of the agreement form. ***The agreement form contains the original terms and conditions when the customer entered into this agreement. Clause... Gives the bank the right to vary the terms and conditions.*** The variation notice shows that the terms have been varied and therefor in accordance with this legislation the up to date terms and conditions are the appropriate information to produce.

cycloneuk

HSBC have replied to my second letter and seem to think that they have fully complied with my CCA request.

ILW

Why are you saying they have not complied with your request?

cycloneuk

ILW wrote: »

Why are you saying they have not complied with your request?

They havn't sent me the original terms i signed up to and have chosen to vary the terms to the latest terms and send me a copy of those, can they do that?

Fribourg

cycloneuk wrote: »

They havn't sent me the original terms i signed up to and have chosen to vary the terms to the latest terms and send me a copy of those, can they do that?

Well, if they are allowed to do that, then many of us here we're going to be in the poo, hope the big brains around here reply and tell us know what will be the best thing to do

ILW

They only need to come up with a reconstitud copy of what the original terms were. A copy of the original signed agreement is not required I believe.

DarkConvict

No.

They must give you the latest copy of the CCA that you signed.

If you signed one in 2001, then again in 2003, and finally again in 2004. It does happen on some agreements. Then the latests one from 2004 must be sent out.

They cannot just send in a CCA with the current terms, it needs to be the one you signed up to.
However the copy can be a "true copy", so can exclude the date and signature. However the OFT has stated they cannot prove it is a true copy without showing you the original to verify it is actually a true copy.

I believe you reply with this - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=33791791&postcount=17

cycloneuk

I sent them this http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=33791777&postcount=9 because they provided me with a copy of a booklet containing the latest terms and conditions and they replied today with the below:

I refer to my previous correspondence dated 15th July 2010 concerning your request that we provide you with an original signed agreement for the above account. We have complied with the requirements of section 78 of the consumer credit act. In particular, we have supplied copies compliant with Regulation 3(2)(b) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

In light of the recent High Court decision in Carey v HSBC Bank Plc 2009 [EWHC] [3417] QB, we can confirm that, in compliance with a statutory request, made pursuant to Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act [1974] ("the act"), the Bank is able to furnish you with:

1. A re constituted copy of the credit agreement (omitting a signature) ("the Signature Page") togeather with a copy of the original terms and conditions forming part of the agreement;

2. A copy of the terms and conditions currently applicable to your agreement;
3. The latest variation, and
4. A statement of account.

For the purpose of satisfying Section 61 of the Act, both the Signature Page and original terms and conditions are to be read as one single document.

When providing you with a Section 78 response the Bank is not under a duty to provide you with a copy of agreement which would have met the criteria pursuant to section 61 of the Act as at the time it was signed by you. The section 63 copy of your original terms and conditions (i.e. the card carrier copy) which has been provided is sufficient to meet the Bank's obligations.

Accordingly we see no merit in your isntance that the documents provided to you are in breach of the CCA or any of the underlying regulations.

While i understand this may not be the response you were hoping to receive. I trust i have now clarified the Bank's position on this matter.

Fribourg

As usual, they get away with the help of those nice judges, that gave them green light to do what they want, ...... you never know, maybe that judge is driving a nice new Ferrari now.