routes in to law as a career change ?

jasonwatkins

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

If you could volunteer with Citizens Advice Bureau they would train you up to some extent in various areas of law, eg housing, benefits, employment, debt.

that's something that i've always wondered about as well so i might certainly pursue that as a possibility - thanks.

suelees1 wrote: »

So there are other ways of getting into the law - qualifying as a solicitor isn't the be all and end all but if you do want to go ahead then as has been said there is no quick fix.

Good luck with it Jason

Thankyou

As i've said previously, I think i'll be really annoyed if i find it's something i take to, and take to pretty well as i could have started it years ago but we'll see how we go. It would help if i could move out of the estate i'm living in but that's another, longer story

nakedavenger

I thought you may find my law education experience useful. I had exactly the same thoughts as you and with hindsight I could have saved myself time, effort, hope and a significant amount of money.

Firstly to become a solicitor you will not only need GCSE's and A Levels and a law degree but very good results. I have 11 GCSEs at grade A - C and 4 A-levels (AACC). My first degree was a 2.1. Even though I worked in the legal field for 10 years before I embarked on a 2 year GDL (a law conversion degree) and the 2 year LPC (the vocational qualification), this experience and these results were simply not good enough for law firms to even consider me for a training contract. This is the 2 year work experience in a law firm which actually gets you qualified.

I applied for over 50 training contracts and was not invited to a single interview despite the experience, volunteering in the CAB and having good 'extra-curriculars' and the distinctions i received for my GDL and LPC. The industry is unbelieveably competitive with over 70 applicants for each place on a training contract. When you consider my grades and that the majority of applicants are 21 with 10 grade a GCSE's and 4 grade a A-levels and a 1st from Oxford I am well down the list for interview selection! Even my experience didnt help, simply because at the time I was 10 years older than most applicants and i'm afraid the legal profession does still have an issue with mature candidates, no matter how much they try and convince you otherwise in their shiny marketing material!

I and others on my course found this out too late I'm afraid. Of 20 people on my LPC course (which finished last year) not one has a training contract. This is despite me and a lot of my friends obtaining a distinction.

Once you have qualified after your 2 year TC there is no guarantee you will have a job at the firm. They usually take on more trainees than they can employ on qualification. I know of many to whom this has happened and are now at the jobcentre.

It took 4 years of part time study (with a full time job), a lot of pain and lots of effort and importantly lots of money. Whole weekends and evenings were lost to very dull text books. I sat over 50 exams and the courses are the hardest thing I have ever done, no question. For all this effort I remain unqualified and am no further forward. The courses are extremely expensive and I spent no less than £20,000 on the two courses alone.

The drop out rate is high as people simply thought it would be stories about murders when in fact its very tedious detail about contract law, land law, the minutae of trusts and then things like company law and equity finance. Some of it is interesting, most is dull all is very difficult!

Now, this is not intended to put you off (honestly!), rather to let you know what the reality is. Yes it is wonderfully challenging and gives you a real awareness of society, politics and business. However I was shocked at how conservative the law industry is regarding non-standard applicants and how competitive it is. For me, even though Im glad i did it, if i had the chance now I would simply read some introductory law texts and keep my £20k!!!

nakedavenger

I thought you may find my law education experience useful. I had exactly the same thoughts as you and with hindsight I could have saved myself time, effort, hope and a significant amount of money.

Firstly to become a solicitor you will not only need GCSE's and A Levels and a law degree but very good results. I have 11 GCSEs at grade A - C and 4 A-levels (AACC). My first degree was a 2.1. Even though I worked in the legal field for 10 years before I embarked on a 2 year GDL (a law conversion degree) and the 2 year LPC (the vocational qualification), this experience and these results were simply not good enough for law firms to even consider me for a training contract. This is the 2 year work experience in a law firm which actually gets you qualified.

I applied for over 50 training contracts and was not invited to a single interview despite the experience, volunteering in the CAB and having good 'extra-curriculars' and the distinctions i received for my GDL and LPC. The industry is unbelieveably competitive with over 70 applicants for each place on a training contract. When you consider my grades and that the majority of applicants are 21 with 10 grade a GCSE's and 4 grade a A-levels and a 1st from Oxford I am well down the list for interview selection! Even my experience didnt help, simply because at the time I was 10 years older than most applicants and i'm afraid the legal profession does still have an issue with mature candidates, no matter how much they try and convince you otherwise in their shiny marketing material!

I and others on my course found this out too late I'm afraid. Of 20 people on my LPC course (which finished last year) not one has a training contract. This is despite me and a lot of my friends obtaining a distinction.

Once you have qualified after your 2 year TC there is no guarantee you will have a job at the firm. They usually take on more trainees than they can employ on qualification. I know of many to whom this has happened and are now at the jobcentre.

It took 4 years of part time study (with a full time job), a lot of pain and lots of effort and importantly lots of money. Whole weekends and evenings were lost to very dull text books. I sat over 50 exams and the courses are the hardest thing I have ever done, no question. For all this effort I remain unqualified and am no further forward. The courses are extremely expensive and I spent no less than £20,000 on the two courses alone.

The drop out rate is high as people simply thought it would be stories about murders when in fact its very tedious detail about contract law, land law, the minutae of trusts and then things like company law and equity finance. Some of it is interesting, most is dull all is very difficult!

Now, this is not intended to put you off (honestly!), rather to let you know what the reality is. Yes it is wonderfully challenging and gives you a real awareness of society, politics and business. However I was shocked at how conservative the law industry is regarding non-standard applicants and how competitive it is. For me, even though Im glad i did it, if i had the chance now I would simply read some introductory law texts and keep my £20k!!!

samboette

Hi there

Thought i'd add my 2 pence worth.

What about an ILEX Course? I am a qualified Legal Executive, however do not work in this field. Again morals got in the way and an obnoxious Solicitor who really spoilt it for me, so 5 years of training went out the window and I now work in Local Government (maybe going back to being a Legal Exec isn't so bad after all!!).

Edit: Ignore my 2 pence worth, just found the cost of the course on the ILEX site. I started mine whilst in College and my then employer and College covered the course fees then, not sure what they do now!!

They do Legal Secretarial and other Para Legal Courses but again they are probably pricey!!

dmg24

nakedavenger wrote: »

I thought you may find my law education experience useful. I had exactly the same thoughts as you and with hindsight I could have saved myself time, effort, hope and a significant amount of money.

Firstly to become a solicitor you will not only need GCSE's and A Levels and a law degree but very good results. I have 11 GCSEs at grade A - C and 4 A-levels (AACC). My first degree was a 2.1. Even though I worked in the legal field for 10 years before I embarked on a 2 year GDL (a law conversion degree) and the 2 year LPC (the vocational qualification), this experience and these results were simply not good enough for law firms to even consider me for a training contract. This is the 2 year work experience in a law firm which actually gets you qualified.

I applied for over 50 training contracts and was not invited to a single interview despite the experience, volunteering in the CAB and having good 'extra-curriculars' and the distinctions i received for my GDL and LPC. The industry is unbelieveably competitive with over 70 applicants for each place on a training contract. When you consider my grades and that the majority of applicants are 21 with 10 grade a GCSE's and 4 grade a A-levels and a 1st from Oxford I am well down the list for interview selection! Even my experience didnt help, simply because at the time I was 10 years older than most applicants and i'm afraid the legal profession does still have an issue with mature candidates, no matter how much they try and convince you otherwise in their shiny marketing material!

I and others on my course found this out too late I'm afraid. Of 20 people on my LPC course (which finished last year) not one has a training contract. This is despite me and a lot of my friends obtaining a distinction.

Once you have qualified after your 2 year TC there is no guarantee you will have a job at the firm. They usually take on more trainees than they can employ on qualification. I know of many to whom this has happened and are now at the jobcentre.

It took 4 years of part time study (with a full time job), a lot of pain and lots of effort and importantly lots of money. Whole weekends and evenings were lost to very dull text books. I sat over 50 exams and the courses are the hardest thing I have ever done, no question. For all this effort I remain unqualified and am no further forward. The courses are extremely expensive and I spent no less than £20,000 on the two courses alone.

The drop out rate is high as people simply thought it would be stories about murders when in fact its very tedious detail about contract law, land law, the minutae of trusts and then things like company law and equity finance. Some of it is interesting, most is dull all is very difficult!

Now, this is not intended to put you off (honestly!), rather to let you know what the reality is. Yes it is wonderfully challenging and gives you a real awareness of society, politics and business. However I was shocked at how conservative the law industry is regarding non-standard applicants and how competitive it is. For me, even though Im glad i did it, if i had the chance now I would simply read some introductory law texts and keep my £20k!!!

Has anybody checked your cv, or did you apply to a particular type of firm? There is no doubt that the market is tough, but to get absolutely no interviews would imply there was something lacking in your application.

jasonwatkins

nakedavenger wrote: »

I thought you may find my law education experience useful.

That's an interesting, and expensive!, journey you've had. thanks

samboette wrote: »

They do Legal Secretarial and other Para Legal Courses but again they are probably pricey!!

They are, and that's the main thing that will keep me out of it ultimately.

purplepardalis

I work for a top 10 city law firm (I am not a lawyer or a secretary though). It is incredibly competitive. Trainees are chosen years in advance and their LPC is covered by the firm (saving 10 - 15k). I definitely would advise that the low cost route of getting in would be to get that legal PA or Paralegal qualification, getting into a firm and working your socks off - proving that you are worth them spending money on you.
They bill in 6 minute increments so time is definitely money and you need to represent money to these firms.

I am sure there are more worthy legal careers like human rights etc but as I've only ever worked for the blood sucking lawyer type I have no idea. However, we do a lot of pro bono work each year just to keep up appearances!!

SwipernoSwiping

I have to agree with many people here, - based on their own experiences and view points as well as my own. Getting "into" law is a nightmare, and here is me thinking that the mums in the school playground are cliquey!;)

I happened to marry a US attorney that was aiming to be a public defender. I got in the way and he moved. He's currently volunteering at CAB and finds that very rewarding - helping people that truly need legal advice, rather than dealing with ambulance chasers - as he puts it - or those that "are entitled"
( Though at this point I must say, I think a little of his "anti-english establishment might show )
There are (it appears) very few "Hippy" lawyers out there, that literally want to do "right" by their clients - and would much rather "do right by their pocket" - It's an establishment, to which one must pass muster, cough up cash before employment commences.

(those of us who have homeworked know full well you don't cough up the cash first! :rotfl:)

Considering how many solicitors I have encountered, I think myself very lucky to have married one that believes that you work to live, not live to work!

So with all this in mind, all the financial, ethical, moral, and intelligence issues put between you and your ideal goal I too would suggest volunteering with CAB. They will train you up in some legal areas, they do offer paid roles if you want them - once you reach a certain level, and then there is more training to take you higher.
And - for us at least, they value you as a person, not as a paper pusher.

Good Quality Legal representation is a right, that right doesn't entitle others to exploit your pocket. Many will happily do so. The USA has an overwhelming amount of qualified but unemployed lawyers. Unemployed because they refuse to work for the going rate of $12 per hour.
For the select few the pay is massive (usually at the cost of their family, home and social life) . We are heading this way too. Most in the states owe above $100,000 in student fees & loans. - Really do you want that hanging over your head?

Good luck in what ever you decide to do.. but invest in some padded walls.

pinkshoes

A friend of mine has been down the "normal" route to get into law - top GSCEs and A Levels, a degree, a conversion course, and then law course. Having qualified, then came the depressing part of getting in with a law firm, which was seriously hard work (and this was 4 years ago!!). She was lucky, and after many applications (100s??), finally got in somewhere. Sadly this wasn't the case for many on her course.

I'm usually an optimist, but in this case, given the OPs background of unemployment (regardless of reasons) and low qualifications, then it would no doubt be a long slog for quite likely nothing. (plus by the time you qualify, you could be 50, and competing against those in their early 20s...)

By all means study law out of personal interest, but I really not sure it's a valid career path.

(sorry)