End of loan contract

Mikeone

Hi everyone, could anybody help shed some light on this please?

I spoke to the DCA today as part of our regular contact.

As I have done before explained that I would be keen to make a F+F settlement, but would have to borrow the money (likely from a family member, with interest) to do so. They confirmed my outstanding balance and once again offered a discounted payment of a few grand less than the balance. This is definitely beyond my means so I offered F+Fs of between 20% and 40% of the total.

The guy on the phone confirmed that the lowest he could go was the figure that he had already quoted, and we agreed that it was too much for me to make at the moment.

However, he advised that in a few weeks’ time the ‘loan’s contract will have expired’ and that they may be able to accept lower amounts at that point. He agreed to call me back on that date to discuss further.

Does anybody know what precisely is meant by the expiration of the loan’s contract? My initial thought was that it was the end of the original terms of the loan (difficult to remember as the debt’s history is very messy).

Also, could anybody advise what my status would be after this point in terms of making a F+F? Would I have a stronger negotiating hand as the DCA guy seemed to suggest?

The man at the DCA was friendly and helpful throughout the conversation, but I would like to get some impartial advice from you guys.


Many thanks



(By the way, to grease the wheels a bit I mentioned that as I had been repaying the debt for many years I had probably already far exceeded repaying the capital amount and original interest anyway. It’s been a long time, and as I no longer have the paperwork, it would be a forensic job!)

Tixy

Hi

Not term I am familiar with.
Can you remember how long it has been with this DCA? is it a 3rd party DCA?

I guess it could be as you suggest that its after your original end date, although if the debt is owned by a DCA then it seems odd that this would be relevant (unless they have some strange agreement with the original creditor about paying them a set percentage).
Or maybe at the moment they are only acting for the original creditor but soon they will buy the debt in full? again it would depend on what agreement they have between them.

Final suggestion/thought is that perhaps the wording meant little and he thinks they'll accept a lower amount as they get nearer there month end or date for meeting their targets.

You of course know (I'm sure) that when the time does come to do a F&Fto get it in writing before you pay?

Hannah_10

As long as you are paying it off nicely then the DCA has little incentive to accept a F&F, if on the other hand you were defaulting, or producting a new statement of accounts to show you can now only afford a smaller repayment, or anything else which makes you look a harder client to recover money from then they'd be looking at a F&F with renewed interest and a more open mind.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advising you to make yourself difficult, because in doing so you would be risking messing your credit rating right up and all sorts of nasty letters to have to deal with and court threats and all that... So what you do is up to you... I say it purely as a peice of information which may or may not be of interest, for you to consider for yourself and do with whatever you see fit.

Mikeone

Thanks for your replies

It is an in-house DCA -its Triton acting for Natwest, so all part of RBS Group. I've been paying them regularly as required for a couple of years now, though prior to that I was dealing with another in-house DCA. Not sure why I was moved around a couple of years ago, but the debt itself dates back many many years and originated as a simple OD.

I'd like to avoid missing payments etc as its been a couple of years since the default was placed and I don't want to get any more on my record (hence my not using the UE route). This debt aside, I've been diligently rebuilding my credit record for a couple of years now and I don't want to undo all that work.

And, don't worry Tixy, I'll definitely get any F+F offer in writing -I'm a good DFW! :rotfl:

Numpty_Monkey

Just a a little you can only get 1 default for a debt;) they can't give you another if you miss payments, and you can't do the UE for an OD:cool:

Mikeone

Thanks Numpty, that's good advice about the default.

It started as an OD, but was converted to a loan years ago (then another loan when I fell behind with the payments)

RAS

Hi

If this is now a loan you need to do a proper Subject Access Request.

The questionn you need to answer are:

1. Was the CCA correctly completed?
2. Is that default notice legally valid?
3. If this was a managed loan, did they add PPI to this or any of the previous accounts?

Mikeone

Thanks RAS

I made a minor attempt to look into it a while back, but I didn't really know where to start. A few years of reading and learning (thanks largely to this site and forum users like you guys) and I am now much more savvy and could make more of it.

I'm keen to know the details as you suggested, but also just how much I've paid into RBSG over the years. If nothing else, it'll be something of an eyewatering financial lesson!

Mikeone

Hi all

I’m afraid that they’re playing silly beggars again. This morning I took a call from Triton, most likely having been generated on their system.

I advised the agent that I had spoken to her colleague yesterday and that we had discussed a discounted settlement. She said that a payment plan was not listed and that one had to be set up to avoid further action being taken, most likely court action, though this was not explicitly stated.

I said that I had discussed the account at some length with her colleague and that a plan was in place for him to call me on the 11th August. She said that no notes had been left on my account to that effect. I suggested that she discuss this with the other agent as he had told me that we had agreed to speak again. She said that she couldn’t leave the call without setting up a repayment plan. I pointed out that the other agent had managed it.

(As an aside, I am familiar with their systems -I have been on regularly renewed six-monthly plans since 2008. Their internal systems seem to require that a plan is in place for it not to generate outbound calls to debtors)

She said that until a plan is marked on the account then I would receive three calls a day. I told her that if I did I would consider it harassment.

I suggested that she talk to her colleague to find out what he had done with my account. She asked what time she could call back. I told her anytime after she had spoken to her colleague. I await their call.

This does seem to call into question the previous offer of a reduced sum once ‘the account has expired’, so I will challenge them on that when they call me back. I will also prepare an SAR to get further information.

However, before I can do that can I ask, would any court take it seriously if I had been paying into the debt without fail for many years, and had made no suggestion that I would stop?

Their internal systems seem to require a six month repayment plan, but as far as I’m concerned, my standing order is still in place and I expect to make my next payment at the end of the month just as I have been doing so far. Does the six monthly scheme mean anything to the courts?

In other words, are they bluffing about the court action?

I am confident and articulate when speaking to them, so I’m not worried about their attitude, though I am also prepared to insist on written communication only if necessary. I would just like to have as many facts as possible at my disposal.

Tixy

They may well be bluffing about court action.

But if they did decide to take you to court (and just assuming for this answer it is an enforceable debt), then the fact that you have been paying won't stop the judge granting a CCJ. If you admit you owe the money and have not made all the originally agreed loan repayments then a CCJ would be granted regardless. If you request it then the judge would almost certainly let you to continue to pay in installments as you have been doing so far. Although then you would have a CCJ on your file.

It does cost them to take you to court and if they are only going to end up with the same payments from you (if what you are paying is all you can afford) then its probably not worth them taking you to court. But they could if they chose to.

Of course if they havent got all the correct paperwork (enforceable CCA, correct default notice etc) then you could stop the CCJ being granted.

Numpty_Monkey

Don't talk to them on the phone, don't agree anything on the phone,
Tell them you will only deal with them in writing
and if they contact you 3 times a day
send them this Harassment by Telephone