Employment CRBs and 'dodgy' data

Mr_Oink

About 5 years ago my younger brother got into a spot of bother after years of abuse from our mothers neighbour. It was a long and sustained neighbour dispute with faults on both sides (mostly caused by our estranged step father). Cutting a long story short it came to a head when our mother had a sudden and serious brain haemorrhage leaving her crippled and with serious brain damage. About a week after he went to mothers home to collect post and the like. He ran into the neighbour, during the visit, who took the opportunity to laugh in his face and say 'I hope she dies slowly and in pain'. He lost his cool and punched the guy in the face before being set upon by several members of the neighbours family.

The net result is he received a 16 week jail term for ABH because he was viewed as the 'aggressor' and because he had no witnesses (the neighbours all giving evidence against him - like they would). This cost him his well paid job, his home - and also his mothers home (where he paid half of the mortgage). Moreover it has cost him his health and his sense of hope - which is sad for me to see as his brother.

Today he telephoned me in a very depressed state. Despite only serving 8 weeks in prison (6 or which in a low risk open prison in Oxfordshire) he has not been able to find any work despite a large and diverse skill set. He never gets called for interviews and even voluntary work is no-go for him because of his 'criminal' background. I can feel for him - I had some issues with my security clearance because I stupidly shoplifted something in my early teens. It was like the third Reich grilling me as a result to satisfy themselves I was not going to walk off with the Crown Jewels. I dread to think how complex it must be for anyone who has spent time in prison.

Despite the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (which I guess, rather ironically, would make him a 'minority group member' LOL) it seems that recruiters have ready access to a database or two of grey/black information without the need for going down the correct CRB route. He made me aware that he had been 'tagged' for 8 weeks of his sentence by Reliance and, noting they have a recruitment wing, I wondered if anyone had any knowledge of them sharing offender data they may have harvested across their business with recruiters? Perhaps he is clutching at straws - but does anyone else have knowledge of this kind of thing or people in this type of situation? I'd love to feed him back something to raise his hopes up.

heretolearn_2

Rather than getting paranoid about illegal information being shared about him, I suspect people aren't interested because he's been unemployed for five years. Certainly even if large firms or recruitment agents have their dodgy sources, smaller firms don't have all that.

He needs to break that cycle. Why is volunteer work not open to him? Fine, there are of course areas that won't be, but plenty of areas that would, surely? Anything where he is not with vulnerable people...

Has he done any training in the last 5 years? Proper, good, training leading to a recognised qualification?

Mr_Oink

heretolearn wrote: »

He needs to break that cycle. Why is volunteer work not open to him? Fine, there are of course areas that won't be, but plenty of areas that would, surely? Anything where he is not with vulnerable people...

From what he has said to me he always answers truthfully about his criminal record - that seems to bar him. I think the straw that broke the donkeys back was being refused to help at his children's sports day at school last week. That seems to have hit him quite hard.

heretolearn wrote: »

Has he done any training in the last 5 years? Proper, good, training leading to a recognised qualification?

I did ask him about this in my sensitive way 'Get your backside on some kind of course and stop moping around' but it seems he tried. The Jobcentre were "all but useless" and applying for funding from various bodies and charities to help 'ex offenders' was pretty fruitless. I can't say how persistent he was because I don't know. I know he is not in a financial position to fund anything himself, so probably a bit of a catch 22. He is on the record as saying "If I had a longer sentence I could have got Mircosoft, Cisco or GasSafe certified in jail for free" - and I do have to see the irony in that :rotfl:

I'll call him later and tell him he is being paranoid.:beer:

Savvy_Sue

NACRO would probably be the best people to advise him.

They can certainly advise on HOW to disclose his record, and without hiding it he may need to be more discreet about it.

terra_ferma

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

NACRO would probably be the best people to advise him.

They can certainly advise on HOW to disclose his record, and without hiding it he may need to be more discreet about it.

I was going to say exactly the same:
Resettlement Plus Helpline
on 020 7840 6464
[EMAIL="helpline@nacro.org.uk"]helpline@nacro.org.uk[/EMAIL]
Monday–Friday 9am–5pm

Judas

Circumstances would have been taken into account by the court. The fact is no one is going to be particularly keen on a convicted violent criminal which is what he is. He may find work but its likely to be outwith his field and in a lowly stature position.

DVardysShadow

Judas wrote: »

Circumstances would have been taken into account by the court. The fact is no one is going to be particularly keen on a convicted violent criminal which is what he is. He may find work but its likely to be outwith his field and in a lowly stature position.

All it takes is a conspiracy between 2 types of ignorance

• vindictive - from the neighbour, who wished OP's mother a slow and painful death, no doubt in order to provoke the ensuing fight
• self righteous - from you, Judas

to screw people for the rest of their lives - not only depriving them of fulfilling their potential - but also depriving society of their talents.

terra_ferma

Judas is being realistic, that's how he would be perceived by employers.
The conviction and type of crime is not an opinion, it's a fact. ABH is no joke, he obviously hurt someone and we don't know what exactly went on and what provocation there would have been.
He had a choice, and he choose to punch someone.

However it also sounds like the price he paid for what he did was very high, and he is not being given the opportunity to move on.
I would say that his attitude would also matters, if he is like 'it's all their fault, I was set upon, I'm a victim' it would sound like he's not learnt his lesson. More like 'I've make a huge mistake, and I've learnt from it' would go down better, in my opinion.

Mr_Oink

terra_ferma wrote: »

Judas is being realistic, that's how he would be perceived by employers.
The conviction and type of crime is not an opinion, it's a fact. ABH is no joke, he obviously hurt someone and we don't know what exactly went on and what provocation there would have been.
He had a choice, and he choose to punch someone.

However it also sounds like the price he paid for what he did was very high, and he is not being given the opportunity to move on.
I would say that his attitude would also matters, if he is like 'it's all their fault, I was set upon, I'm a victim' it would sound like he's not learnt his lesson. More like 'I've make a huge mistake, and I've learnt from it' would go down better, in my opinion.

Indeed. He is very reflective on it and admits it was his error and he should not have thrown a punch regardless of the circumstances and provocation. He does not blame the neighbour for 'yanking his chain', but himself for not having the strength of character to turn the other cheek.

I suspect the main issue in the whole case was he refused to plead guilty - 'wanting his day in court'. I told him at the time it would be a bad move because, as you rightly point out, he hit someone - and that was a fact he could not argue.

My odd sense of humour finds it quite comical that he got quite a good hiding for his punch and lost everything - but I know I should not find it funny! (who needs enemies eh!). On the other hand his punishment was to be sent to prison for a period of time - not to be punished for the rest of his life for a moment of poor judgement and a serious mistake made under some duress.

I spent some time on the phone with him last night and he was a bit more upbeat by the end of the call - I think a positive state of mind would help him, but I suspect that is easy for me to say.

Personally - I hope this post serves two purposes;
(1) To offer some kind of hope and practical advice to people in his situation
(2) To serve as a cautionary tale to others who may have 'neighbour' issues

Our mother sub-sequentially died whilst he was in prison. He was refused leave to attend the funeral as he had not been 'inside' long enough. The anniversary is just coming up and I think that may be why he is a bit down about it.

Savvy_Sue

That is very sad, Mr O. I hope NACRO can help.

The other thing is that there can be 'back to work' courses which can be very helpful in giving a bit of work experience which then leads to jobs. Google LITE Bristol for an example: although many of the people on that will have experience of homelessness, there's an open door policy and people are successful in gaining employment, even with quite interesting records.