Moorcroft are lying thread- (post #35, they've conceeded haha... but I'm not done!)

Hannah_10

I owe Orange £399.65 and I accept that to be correct.

Then Moorcroft became involved and it's now £539.65, exactly £140 higher.

I sent them a copy of the prove-it letter by recorded post on 16th June. I have today recoved thier reply dated 1st July.

I have quoted the body of the letter below, the parts in bold are the parts I disagree with.

Re Orange Personal Communciations Balance £539.65

I write in response to your recent communication in relation to the above account and can confirm we have been in contact with Orange Personal Communications who have advised us that this account was originally taken out on the 20/11/07 on a minimum term 18 months contract. Notes show you contacted them and requested an upgrade on 24/02/09 and the contract details were amended to show the contract end date as the 19/11/10. As you requested the upgrade 3 months early the remaining 3 months were added to the end of your contract, making it a 21 month contract. You have paid for this account via Direct Debit from July 2008 to the 11/01/10 when the Direct Debit was cancelled. You then made payments at the Orange retail store via Credit Card.

You did not give 30 days notice to cancel the contract and the account was disconnected for non payment on the 14/04/2010. The outstanding balance of £539.65 relates to airtime and line rental charges up to the point of disconnection for £399.65 and contract charges for £140.00.

An upgrade can only be requested on the account by you and you would have been taken through a strict security check before this is done. Orange Personal Communications Upgrade Department have also stated that the package was signed for by you at your address therefore, you remain fully liable for the outstanding amount on this account which is correct and due for payment. I can also confirm I have placed this account on hold and request you make immediate contact with our call centre on the above telephone number to discuss a repayment proposal you can afford and maintain.

However if you are unhappy with the information provided please contact us by return.

Yours sincerely

Accounts Department.

Ok so the main issue is where did the £140 come from???
I telephoned Orange and spoke to them on 14th June (long after the original letter demanding £539.65 from Moorcroft) and they confirmed that the debt they were showing was £399.65, so that's why the prove-it letter was sent (see old thread here for more info if required). Now of course though Moorcroft say the £140 was from Orange- I don't believe them. If it really was from Orange then why would Oranges' systems be showing £140 less days/weeks AFTER the original Moorcroft letter?

They say the payments at the shop were by credit card. I do not possess such a thing. I have a debit card but I never use it to pay for anything except online. All payments I made at the Orange retail shops were in cash. Not sure this is relevant but I thought better to mention it than not.

About that upgrade. Firstly I was of the belief that it was a 12 month contract and secondly I was of the belief that it meant 12 months- from Feb to Feb, not nearly 2 years! I'm guessing my complaint with that would be against the retailler as it was not (as the letter implies) directly through Orange, but through a small high-street retailler, in which case it may be more trouble than it's worth as that branch has now closed. Anyhow the part about me signing for a package at my home address is also innaccurate. I took an upgrade- yes indeed, to a better phone. But I took the phone home that day from the independant shop. If I signed for it, it was at the shop.



So... What is the best thing to do now?

Obviously I need to write back to them, what do I say? Do I demand to know more about the £140, if so how do I word it?

Or is that a total waste of time and should I just go for a F&F below the £399.65 I am willing to accept I owe (largly because I don't have the stamina to argue- I believe it shouldn't be this high but nevermind)?

I really do not want to pay that £140 because I think Moorcroft invented it.

Anyone able to advise?

KingElvis

Wish I could be more help but are you sure the extra 140 squid isn't some kind of fee from the lovely people at the collections agency?

Write to them asking for a complete and accurate breakdown of costs.

pepe2008

Write to Moorcroft and insist on a Final Account from Orange. Point out that you would also need full details of the 'Contract Charges' together with a Copy of the section of the Contract where it should detail the reasons for making such a Charge, the events in which these would be applied and the amounts which could be Charged...which should therefore be clearly detailed in the Terms and Conditions.

Also point out that, as your Contract would have been with Orange and not them ( Moorcroft) they are not Legally entitled to make any Chrges to the Account without prior Agreement with you.

Its Moorcroft, just because they say it is....doesnt mean to say it is so.

Hannah_10

KingElvis wrote: »

Wish I could be more help but are you sure the extra 140 squid isn't some kind of fee from the lovely people at the collections agency?

That's what I'm saying. They don't have a right to increase my debt, so if it IS a "fee" from them they can whistle for it.... And I oh so strongly suspect it is.

Hannah_10

When I write to Moorcroft, should I say that on (date) they wrote to me to demand £539.65, but on 14th June Orange confirmed that the debt to them was £399.65?

That date (although I haven't got the letter in front of me, I can find it) will be a good fortnight earlier than when I called Orange and they said it was £399.65.

Or would it be better to play my cards closer to my chest and not say what I know?

Also is there any value calling Orange again this evening to confirm the amount of the debt again, before I put a letter to Moorcroft in tomorrows post?

pepe2008

If Moorcroft are acting 'on behalf of' then the Account is still at Orange, whatever balance they have is the correct one.

If they say its the higher figure then ask them to detail and justify the Charges. If they say its the lower figure then go ahead with your letter to Moorcroft without letting them know that you
have confirmed with Orange.

Only deal with Moorcroft by letter ( as any DCA ) and if they string you a line about the Charges then make an Official Complaint to them and inform the OFT.

Hannah_10

On the previous letters then yes, it says they are "acting on behalf of" but the latest letter which I quoted in the first post doesn't say either way.

The latest letter does however have a Moorcroft Reference and a "Client Reference", as did all the previous letters, so by that I am taking it that the debt is most likely still owned by Orange.

mr.ton

Tell Moorcroft to get lost...they have no legal power to any money off you whatsoever - only a county court has this power.
Report Moocroft to the OFT & trading standards.
Refuse to answer security questions if they phone you.

Hannah_10

Mr.Ton can I really tell them just to get lost? I still owe Orange £400 after all but Orange will not deal with me, I have tried, they just refer me back to Moorcroft. So if I am going to clear this debt then I need to send back something more detailled than get lost surely?

I never ever deal with DCA's by phone, don't worry about that. None of the DCA's or problem creditors have my number to start with but I would have no hesitation sending the template "bugg*r off and stop calling me" letters if I needed to. I have been round this block before and the treatment I got from the DCA's on the phone was nothing short of willful sadism. I assure that will never be allowed to happen again- this time they can deal with me in writing, where I can prove every word exchanged, and they will not get a penny from me that I do not legitimately have to give.

mr.ton

Like i say - Moorcroft have no legal power to obtain any money off you whatsoever - only a county court has this power.
They wont take you anywhere near the place as it will cost them money to do so and wont be worth their while just to get back £1 per month or something like that.
Thats why they just rely on threats & intimidation.

Hannah_10

You see that part I know about, but if I want a normal life in the future (one in which I can get considered for a business loan for example, or can own a Visa card like other grown ups) then I need to clear the debt I have. Telling Moorcroft to Do One means my file remains impossible to move on from for the next 5 years and 6 months, and to be fair- I do owe Orange £400 of that money (or at least I owe them lots of it). So even if Moorcroft can extract exactly nothing from me and even if I'm not in the least be frightened of thier stupid letters, I still really think I do have to clear the Orange debt along with all the others (see my DFW diary for the others- but it's only the Moorcroft one I currently need advice on).

So the question isn't if I can totally and utterly avoid the whole debt (I'm waiting out a far larger debt at the moment which has about a year to go to be statute barred) it's how to get rid of it as quickly, painlessly and cheaply as possible. I would like to force Moorcroft to hand it back to Orange or to force them to reduce the £140 which is unfair. Then I would like to go for a highly reduced F&F, but I recognise I need a lot of advice and support with this because I am not the best money manager the world ever saw.