BCA Book Collectors Editions No Idea!

climbintheladderouttadebt

Morning! Another day, another problem!

Months ago, before I understood the CCA request stuff, I sent a CCA request to BCA, as after looking at my debts, what I'm paying, what I owe etc., I discovered I'd been paying £4.99 a month to BCA for over a year and couldn't work out why!

I sent the CCA to see a signed agreement between them and myself, to ascertain what books I had that would amount to so much, plus how much I actaully owed etc.

Well I assume they cashed the £1 postal order but not sure if it went on my account or not. Customer Services wrote back and said it was for 'The Disney Collection' and I owed £80-odd quid. If I wasn't happy, call them. Well, if the Disney Collection are the 2 books I got in 2008 (when I was ill with mental health problems and didn't know what I was doing), surely they cannot charge me so much money?!

Anyway, as a CCA wasn't sent, nor was a statement of account, I wrote back with the 2nd letter. This got a reply in the form of a demand for money, I believe. So sent the cease & desist letter. Heard nothing more.

Today they reply re the cease & desist letter, stating 'Our records indicate your account for the Disney Winne the Pooh Collection started on 15 Dec 2008. 2 books were sent out to you as an introductory parcel. We received payment on 7 Jan 2009. The bulk order of 28 books was sent out to you on 13 Jan 09 as we did not receive any cancellation request from your behalf. According to our records, we have received a payment of £89.92 to date (including your initial payment for the introductory volume). This leaves an outstanding balance of £54.89 to complete payment for this collection. As mentioned in our letter 18 May 2010.

We have also arrange to send a copy of terms and condition (not the best spelling but oh well! lol) via post on 17 June 2010. Kindly let us know if you have not received it so that we can arrange to resend it. Please note that we are unable to refund any money or compensation. Kindly make the payment of outstanding balance as soon as possible. We reserve the right to charge for late payments.

It goes on to say if it doesn't help, call them.

I paid £4.99 a month because I got demands for it every month. It sounds silly, but i took out 4 book club memberships I think, in 2008, and thought I owed money to them. On inspection of previous payments made, it appears that I sometimes paid BCA £7.99 month as well. I have no idea what's going on with these book club memberships. With some I was meant ton buy 4 books within a year and I'm sure I haven't, but I've heard nothing from them and emails go unanswered.

Has anyone else dealt with BCA? I plan to send a 'prove it' letter as i have no idea what these 30 books are about! I got 2 from one of the bookclubs, I can only assume BCA. Am I doing the right thing sending the prove it letter? Nearly £145 for 30 books I don't have doesn't make me happy!! And, if they cannot prove i owe any money, is it true they can keep what I've paid? Surely that's not the case?!

Sorry it's so long, thanks for reading, hope you can help?!

DarkConvict

If you placed an order and made monthly payments i do not see you will get any refunds.

I'm not entirely sure what a book club membership is, I assume you pay monthly for a set of books sent out. Im not sure if a club like this is covered by CCAs, even if it is it would be CCA 2006 as such asking to see the agreement will not help, it will still be enforceable in court. Anything after April 2007 is covered by CCA 2006.

Sadly, suffering from mental illness will not help, all because you do not remember joining/receiving goods does not mean you do not owe the money. They will chase for payment regardless of circumstances, people with bi-polar can suffer from this alot with high sprees of spending, which I've seen first hand recently. I'm guessing you signed up to BCA and got the 2 starter books, you did not ask to cancel within the 28 days so you were moved onto the lengthy contract and 28 books were sent out. Your monthly payments were paying off the 28 books that were delivered in a bulk package.
If you deny receiving these books I think you needed to query it back in Jan 2009. Im unsure what you can do at such a late stage.

Ames

Did you actually get the 28 books?

I was sucked into a free offer of a book club trial with no obligation to buy. they sent me out more books, but I was having a MH episode and forgot about them. When I remembered I returned the books but they still chased me for money. I just stayed strong and kept telling them I wasn't going to pay for books I didn't have, want, or order. My case was strengthened though because I'd been told I had no obligation to buy more, and so they were unsolicitated goods. Yours seems to be different in that you ordered the books, which would count as a contract. But if you didn't get the further 28 books then you can argue that you can't be charged for goods that they didn't send, and that as they didn't send them the contract was broken or didn't exist.

climbintheladderouttadebt

DarkConvict wrote: »

If you placed an order and made monthly payments i do not see you will get any refunds. I didn't make an order. BCA sent me just 2 books unsolicited, which may or may not be the ones they refer to.

I'm not entirely sure what a book club membership is, I assume you pay monthly for a set of books sent out. Im not sure if a club like this is covered by CCAs, even if it is it would be CCA 2006 as such asking to see the agreement will not help, it will still be enforceable in court. Anything after April 2007 is covered by CCA 2006. Good to know. But the law must cover this somewhere, otherwise I could tell someone I'd sent them something and start charging them even if they had no clue what I was on about?!

Sadly, suffering from mental illness will not help, all because you do not remember joining/receiving goods does not mean you do not owe the money. They will chase for payment regardless of circumstances, people with bi-polar can suffer from this alot with high sprees of spending, which I've seen first hand recently. I'm guessing you signed up to BCA and got the 2 starter books, you did not ask to cancel within the 28 days so you were moved onto the lengthy contract and 28 books were sent out. Your monthly payments were paying off the 28 books that were delivered in a bulk package.
If you deny receiving these books I think you needed to query it back in Jan 2009. Im unsure what you can do at such a late stage.

I never signed up to anything with BCA though. I never got 30, or even 28 books! I did not order a thing from BCA regarding any Disney books. I received 2 books that I believe were what required the £7.99 payments (only 2 or 3 of them).
I understand that my mental health issues don't come into the payment side, it was just to explain that at the time, I had 4 book club memberships and didn't quite understand what was going on. I only ordered from Books for Children and someone else. I paid invoices when they came, as i did with all bills. Despite all my manic behaviour, my payments were kept updated on everything. I guess I just couldn't think about anything, kept going blindly. I'm amazed I even kept up with all my payments as I did. I suppose I never thought I'd be billed for things I didn't get.

DarkConvict

I'm not sure how to handle it if they were unsolicited goods. So you did not ask to recieve these books they just turned up in the post?
If that was the case then I believe you can accept them as unsolicited goods withotu paying, so if you never agreed you might be okay.

I would be tempted to go and speak to a local CAB office, they might have better advice, along with OFT and consumer direct - http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/about/how-we-help/

But do give this a read.
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/238360-bca-book-club-associates.html

climbintheladderouttadebt

OK,
Well I never signed anything, and as I understand it, "if they provide a service and ask for payment later, that's called Consumer Credit. If they are providing Consumer Credit, they need to be licenced and must not provide that credit without a "properly executed" agreement."

Thanks for those links, darkconvict, I have spent awhile reading! I shall attempt to email someone at BCA and send the same letter to BCA via recorded delivery post.

I am such a tight-wad that I would NEVER wish to pay £145 for 28/30 books! But as I never wanted to miss payments during my illness I paid anything that was sent to me. I *almost* wish I'd been reckless and never paid bills or something! I was just too ill to deal with anything (I didn't eat and left my daughter with her dad for days on end )

climbintheladderouttadebt

So if this was CCA regulated, and they haven't sent relevant details, is this proof enough that the 'debt' is in dispute? I'm just thinking in case they get a DCA involved, or even what exactly I should be emailing & posting to them. I'd just like a further explanation of all of this - it's only today they've finally told me I've been paying for 28/30 books I never received!

DarkConvict

No, simply requesting it and them not sending it does not put it in dispute. Only once 44 days have passed since the original request, can you send the dispute letter - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=33791811&postcount=18

It probably should be regulated by CCA 2006, but I'm not sure. I do not know if this will even help in your case but you could try.

climbintheladderouttadebt

It was 44 days on 4th June. The 2nd letter has been sent. It's from that that I had the reply today. I have found some info on s. 2 of the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971. I am hoping to actually find out what this is now, and whether or not it will help my case.
I am so bogged down with issues right now, I'd just love to have a straight answer from BCA as to this alleged debt. IF I signed something when I was ill, I will pay it. But I truthfully do not believe I signed up for anything. For most of 2008 I wasn't even at home, I was desperately trying to run away from my depression. I just want an end to this pointless to-ing and fro-ing. I either legally owe money or I don;t. But I can't afford to pay a debt which isn't mine.:(

climbintheladderouttadebt

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Primary&PageNumber=50&NavFrom=2&parentActiveTextDocId=1366984&ActiveTextDocId=1366984&filesize=38108

Can't make much sense of it but it *seems* to support the idea that I cannot be charged for something I did not order. And that I should be able to obtain a refund for monies paid for a 'service' I did not want/receive. Now I need to translate it into plain English! lol

Furthermore I can state that I received no goods (ie the 30 books). If I'm lucky, I might even sleep tonight! <sigh>

climbintheladderouttadebt

Woop woop!

'
Unsolicited items


Under the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971, (as amended) it is an offence to demand payment for goods known to be unsolicited, in other words, they were sent to a person without any prior request made by them or on their behalf.

Someone who receives goods in these circumstances may retain them as an unconditional gift, and does not have to pay for or return any unwanted goods. Anyone who receives a demand for payment for unsolicited goods should report the matter to their local Trading Standards Department.'


From http://www.berr.gov.uk/policies/consumer-issues/buying-and-selling/unsolicited-items