Financial advice is for rich people.

Tirian

Having said all that .. (hehe, as if it wasn't enough) ... I do believe strongly in personal responsibility, and would agree that the people who are going out racking up loads of debt on credit cards buying clothes, gizmos and holidays are being irresponsible.

Of course, it is also amusing to see the banks whining about how much bad debt they are having to write off, having conveniently 'forgotten' that it was they who have been steadliy loosening the criteria for getting credit, and spending billions on advertising to tell everyone to keep borrowing :rolleyes:

tomstickland

You cast scorn at people who don't realise that they should pay off their credit card before making savings and say that 'they shouldn't be allowed to handle money' - but many, many people genuinely don't realise this!!

It's a combination of laziness and lack of interest (if you excuse the pun).
Really, for someone not to understand why when it's explained to them is very worrying though.

Tirian

Or simply just very poor numerical skills. Really, there is a large group of people who are just intimidated by numbers, and anything related to them. They do not necessarily understand what APR actually means. It's not necessarily just laziness.

[Deleted User]

Gosh Tirian, you do sound like an angry and cynical young man. I suggest you get out of London if you can, as there are much more affordable and nicer places to live, where people smile at you and you can smile back and where personal anger doesn`t have a chance to grow.

EdInvestor

My suggestions still stand Tirian ( if you are really interested in help rather than just ranting). It has been necessary to have two incomes to buy in London for many years, it's not a new phenomenon. Use your annual cash ISA for an emergency fund first.Then try and gettogether 15k for a deposit.After that follow the instructions to start investing in the stocks and shares ISA.

Oh and check out how much of the two state pensions you're accumulating by asking for a forecast. Don't knock the state pensions: someone with a full NI record and a decent salary will retire now on nearly 11k a year, which may not be riches, but isn't bad if you have your own home with no mortgage to pay.

You would have to save up 240,000 quid to buy an annuity paying out an index linked income like this on the open market today.

BTW I agree with much of what you say about the financial services industry. But not every single aspect of the industry is rotten, there are some good bits.There are ways of gettimng around paying high charges for duff "advice", there are ways of finding the investments that really perform and the tax wrappers that really help, rather than just pretend to. Much of the info about this is available on self help BBs like this one and the Fool.

But you need to put in some effort - as is the case with every single aspect of our lives. Being lucky helps in investment, but it is never enough on its own. Throwing up one's hands in disgust and walking away never gets anyone anywhere.

Tirian

EdInvestor wrote:

My suggestions still stand Tirian ( if you are really interested in help rather than just ranting). It has been necessary to have two incomes to buy in London for many years, it's not a new phenomenon.

Perhaps - but I'm just respectfully pointing out that your advice to buy a property first is then not much good to someone who doesn't have the benefit of two incomes to help them out.

I don't think that I am especially angry or cynical. Wary? Definitely! Irritated by constantly being bombarded with "solutions" that are only really appropriate for people who are earning twice as much as me? Yes! Case in point - recently people have been raving about the Housing Options scheme which allegedly helps you to buy if you've got a lower income. But looking into it further, it might help you get a mortgage for part of a property - but then you have to pay rent on top of that to the council for the remainder. If you can only afford the mortgage by going halves on it, where exactly are you supposed to suddenly find this extra money for additional rent from? Seems a bit bizarre to me!!!

Kittie - there's a kind of prioritisation behind my residence in London ... based on the priority of having a job. I applied for lots of jobs. I got one in London, so I moved there. It seemed better than being unemployed in Bristol. I'm not in despair about my situation or anything - my annoyance stems mostly from the fact that I am very aware that there are lots and lots of people out there who simply won't be able to cope with working all this out, even if I can - which is exactly why we are seeing these widespread problems arising.

I don't think it is realistic to assume that everyone is going to work it out for themselves, no matter how much some seem to want to insist that they can. Call them lazy, call them stupid, as you wish - but it doesn't change the fact that just dismissing it in that fashion won't make a jot of difference, and in 30 years time there's going to be a pretty big mess unless some realistic changes are made now to the way that pension and retirement provision - and advice - is handled.

cheerfulcat

I don't think it is realistic to assume that everyone is going to work it out for themselves, no matter how much some seem to want to insist that they can. Call them lazy, call them stupid, as you wish - but it doesn't change the fact that just dismissing it in that fashion won't make a jot of difference, and in 30 years time there's going to be a pretty big mess unless some realistic changes are made now to the way that pension and retirement provision - and advice - is handled.

Eh? It's already a pretty big mess, no need to wait 30 years. There are many more in trouble with money than just " young people ".

The fact is, if you want people in their 20s & 30s to get to grips with finance / pensions / etc. then there needs to be some method of providing accessible advice for them. It's all very well saying £250/hr is "justifiable" - but if you want 20 year olds earning £15k to be getting financial advice, that doesn't cut much ice.

There has never been more information available about investment/saving. People starting out now have huge advantages; it has never been so easy and cheap to invest directly and the Internet has made it possible to do mountains of research and study. And there is so much quality, free advice to be had - one wouldn't know it by your rants but you have already had huge quantities of help from Ed and dunstonh on your other thread. MSE and The Motley Fool are stuffed full of helpful, knowledgable people ( some of them professionals, some not); anyone willing to learn will do so there.

I'm sorry if the idea offends you but people need to take some responsibility for themselves ( and that includes not relying on an employer for pension provision ). Time and time again I hear people saying " Oh, I can't be bothered with money stuff, it's too boring ". This is not inability to cope, it is pure laziness.

And nobody has to pay £250 an hour to see an IFA. Several IFAs have already told you that. There are cheaper advisors, and there is always the commission based option.

Oh, and

But I'm not going to go off and set up my own investment plan just because someone on some message board told me it was the best thing to do, and that I was lazy and / or stupid to do anything else. And if you're going to get huffy about that, then I suggest you get over yourself a bit!

I really don't care what you do, and I don't know why you think I would get huffy over it! I suggest that you get over yourself.

I've been quite up front in saying that I am starting from scratch and I don't know what I'm doing - but that doesn't mean that anyone who swans over and pronounces that they know what's best for me to do is going to get my immediate adulation. I'm glad it worked for you - but I'll be the judge of whether it's right for me or not. And frankly, backing yourself up with claims that anyone who doesn't want to do it your way is just too lazy to put the effort in doesn't actually give you any credibility in my eyes. It's just another opinion.

Oh for Heavens' sake. You have three basic choices; do it yourself, get somebody to do it for you, or don't do it at all. You thought that the second option was too expensive; I suggested the first. I never said anything about what was best for you, I am not an advisor. I don't quite understand the motivation behind these personal attacks, BTW. I was only trying to help you. It hardly seems worth it now.

margaretclare

cheerfulcat wrote:

Eh? It's already a pretty big mess, no need to wait 30 years. There are many more in trouble with money than just " young people ".

There has never been more information available about investment/saving. People starting out now have huge advantages; it has never been so easy and cheap to invest directly and the Internet has made it possible to do mountains of research and study. And there is so much quality, free advice to be had - one wouldn't know it by your rants but you have already had huge quantities of help from Ed and dunstonh on your other thread. MSE and The Motley Fool are stuffed full of helpful, knowledgable people ( some of them professionals, some not); anyone willing to learn will do so there.

I'm sorry if the idea offends you but people need to take some responsibility for themselves ( and that includes not relying on an employer for pension provision ). Time and time again I hear people saying " Oh, I can't be bothered with money stuff, it's too boring ". This is not inability to cope, it is pure laziness.

And nobody has to pay £250 an hour to see an IFA. Several IFAs have already told you that. There are cheaper advisors, and there is always the commission based option.

I completely agree with all of this. I wish there had been the amount of financial advice when I was much younger. There's money advice in all the main newspapers and many other places. As against that, there is a culture of 'I deserve it, I'm worth it, why shouldn't I?' which can very easily lead into debt. There is also the feeling that 'someone else' should do it - the government, the council, anyone else at all. You hear this from all sides. So, although there is a lot of information available there are also huge pressures, and it's a constant dog-eat-dog between the two!

Margaret

dunstonh

Things today have never been better for the DIY investor or the investor seeking advice. Both from an information point of view, a compliance point of view and the choice of product and investment quality.

Mrs_pbradley936

Well, I like to take notice of professionals in this area and do not begrudge them a fee. The last piece of advice I got I would have thought was illegal because it worked out so well. It concerned my son and letting him have the rental income from a flat (he was at university and not earning) which was in his name. He went to university in the South - we thought he was going to Nottingham and made plans on figures for housing there. The original plan was to buy a place and rent a couple of rooms (he would occupy one) and let the rent pay the mortgage. Anyway he ended up in the South so we could not afford a house there so IFA said we could adapt our plan and buy local (to us) then we pay the mortgage and let son have the rent. Rent was £550 a month and for us to give him that much would cost us a great deal more because we are tax payers. The money for his flat was raised by a mortgage on our house because we had no mortgage having recently paid it up. Have had the flat for 3 years, son has had £550 per month for all of that time PLUS about £30k in equity. I would never have thought of all that by myself!