Which is best Pension provider?

jem16

peterbaker wrote: »

Reasonable question: My AXA pension has managed 5% pa over the last 8 years.

Nothing greatly wrong with that - steady growth from a cautious fund.

Currently it goes up and down like a flippin' yoyo. The stock market goes up and down like a flippin' yoyo. That's no excuse for my 'managed' pension fund following suit, now is it?

Why wouldn't it? The fund has an objective to follow - it can't just change its objective on a whim.

and liquidated the maximum possible in my existing pensions before 5 April 2010 if I had known how and met an IFA who was seriously interested in helping me.

The change in date was known for a long time. Why didn't you look into it if that was what you wanted to do.

However would it have been in your best interest to take the money at age 50? You would have been bringing it out of a tax-free shelter and into a taxable environment. Would you still have continued working or would you have retired at age 50?

I would be holding a lot of cash and credit lines ready to exploit the double dip if it happens. Gold and silver would have been interesting alternatives a couple of years ago.

With the benefit of hindsight. Mind you they look seriously like bubbles waiting to burst to me.

Now I am locked in again until age 55 with my pension funds and so have to put up with daily reports of shenanigans like the links I posted earlier.

You don't have to keep the funds as they are. Change them if you are not happy.

I recommend that the OP and OH do not put themselves in a similar position where effectively they would be not executing a retirement plan at all, but so easily could become mere passengers in some leaky boat managed by shysters.

Funds are all the same whether within a pension wrapper or outwith. You haven't really given any viable alternative where the OP could get the same value as she gets simply from using the 3% contribution from her employer.

dunstonh

Peter, all you keep posting about are legacy products, legacy funds and legacy issues and a bunch of hindsight information where you seem to expect someone to have a crystal ball.

peterbaker

Dear DH, of course I am talking legacy ... that's what normal workers' pensions become long before they are due to pay out!

Unless I am so sharp that I have continually switched horses at just the right time throughout my career, or am one of the men in power I spoke of earlier who can dictate my own pension, then what other than legacy products did you expect me to be left with in the last few years before what used to be called a 'normal retirement date'??

And 5% pa a reasonable rate of return over the last 8 years, jem16?? I should tell you that it hasn't been steady growth. I think it was -20% cumulative at one point and then +40% and then 0% and it's only the last weird 18 months that got it to +50% again. Pensions should not be managed that way for normal punters. I could have done better with cash ISAs, couldn't I?

Crystal balls aren't required to see that something ain't ever been right with these providers and their regulators this past generation.

jem16

peterbaker wrote: »

And 5% pa a reasonable rate of return over the last 8 years, jem16??

You said it was a cautious fund. If you wanted a higher rate of return you need to take more risk.

I should tell you that it hasn't been steady growth. I think it was -20% cumulative at one point and then +40% and then 0% and it's only the last weird 18 months that got it to +50% again.

Investments don't go up in a straight line - they zig zag. It's the average growth you look at. Nearer retirement you change your funds to low risk.

Pensions should not be managed that way for normal punters. I could have done better with cash ISAs, couldn't I?

Could you? I don't remember cash ISA rates going much above 5% and over the last year they have been more like 2.5% at best. That would only be achieved by rate chasing as well as most fall to ridiculous rates after the first year.

You need to keep your eye on even cash ISAs so why not pension funds?

Crystal balls aren't required to see that something ain't ever been right with these providers and their regulators this past generation.

So if you knew all of this beforehand why have you not done something about it?

peterbaker

I do hope you are new to this jem16, because you sound like it. Are you trying to teach me something about sucking eggs? Or is this the sum total of your experience you wish me to take onboard?

First you say steady growth from a cautious fund, and then you imply if it don't zig-zag like crazy it ain't a real man's fund. Then I looked at the average growth over 8 years and since markets are so dangerous and slipping at the moment I decided I didn't like it. Are you telling me I should?

How much closer to retirement before it settles, please, and will someone be optimizing a switch of the funds or do I need to monitor it hourly and Do It Myself?

Thought so.

As for Cash ISA rates the average market rates since 2002 have apparently been 4.02%. 3.60%, 4.14%, 4.47%, 4.48%, 5.11%, 4.30%, 0.56%.

PS As I believe these include the diabolically awful "dropped off a cliff when least expecting it rates" viz 0.56% for 2009, then I think I was right in saying I could have done better than 5% average over 8 years with a bit of DIY cash ISA work, even if I had left some of it in less than the best accounts from time to time. (And potentially instant tax free access on all of it too!). Perhaps a died-in-the-wool cash ISA fanatic might like to comment.

jem16

peterbaker wrote: »

First you say steady growth from a cautious fund, and then you imply if it don't zig-zag like crazy it ain't a real man's fund.

I didn't imply anything of the sort.

Then I looked at the average growth over 8 years and since markets are so dangerous and slipping at the moment I decided I didn't like it. Are you telling me I should?

No I'm asking you why you don't appear to have made any changes if you don't like what's happening.

How much closer to retirement before it settles, please, and will someone be optimizing a switch of the funds or do I need to monitor it hourly and Do It Myself?

You either DIY or pay an IFA to do it for you if you don't have the time/inclination/knowledge.

As for Cash ISA rates the average market rates since 2002 have apparently been 4.02%. 3.60%, 4.14%, 4.47%, 4.48%, 5.11%, 4.30%, 0.56%.

So an average of 3.83%?

PS As I believe these include the diabolically awful "dropped off a cliff when least expecting it rates" viz 0.56% for 2009, then I think I was right in saying I could have done better than 5% average over 8 years with a bit of DIY cash ISA work, even if I had left some of it in less than the best accounts from time to time. (And potentially instant tax free access on all of it too!). Perhaps a died-in-the-wool cash ISA fanatic might like to comment.

As the best rates were usually only for new money and not for transferred money it wouldn't have been possible to achieve the best rates.

I've used cash ISAs over the last 8 years and only on one or two years have I got above 5% and that was chasing the best rates. Only fixed rate accounts would have given more which wouldn't have been possible paying in monthly contributions. You would also have to take into account that you wouldn't get the full 5%pa on those monthly contributions.

However it appears that you would rather just run down the pension rather than do anything proactive to change something you don't seem happy with.

The question still remains though. How does the OP get a better rate of return and using what method than the pension her employer would pay 3% into?

Even if you just take your 5% return and a 3% employer contribution of £62.50pm that would amount to £7354 over 8 years, all for nothing.

Pilky_2

Many thanks for all your help. We had a IFA that advised us about our mortgage so I think we will contact him again and see if he can help. I was just wondering if anyone sort of stood out from the rest when it came to pensions.

I am very sensible with money and have always been bought up to save save save but OH is useless with money so looking for something that we can't access until retirement - even though that seems a long way of still!

Many thanks once again.

peterbaker

Well happy hunting Pilky. Equitable Life once were seen as a cut above the rest. Look what happened to them too. WHich is the safest bank? Which currency is the least likely to devalue? No IFA can answer those questions either.


I suggest that one thing you might get your head around before you leap into further locked in investment is an example like jem16 used without introducing it ... it is possible to take his 3%, my 5% and his magicked £62.50 and create a spreadsheet in five minutes which contains the number £7354 after 8 years. It's all pie-in-the-sky till you see it in your hand of course ... the money not the spreadsheet!


So you can use a spreadsheet, jem. That's good. You've given an example based on a level 5% pa growth compounded on a monthly contribution of 3% on a monthly salary that equates to £25,000 pa.

But that's not based on rocket science. That's based on a pensions investment scenario that doesn't exist other than in illustrations.

The employer pays in £6,000 over 8 years in your example, and with luck (and a notional level 5% growth over the entire 8 years in question) maybe its worth £7,354 with investment growth. Maybe it's only worth £5,000. Stuff happens. One of my other pensions turned £10,000 of employer only contributions into £5,000 in just 5 years.

For nothing you say. Ehm not really because the OP works for it as part of her remuneration package.

I didn't imply she should give it up.

I do say however that just because a non-contributory arrangement exists, it should not be taken as any pointer to where to put the OPs own additional savings.

Aegis

peterbaker wrote: »

I do hope you are new to this jem16, because you sound like it. Are you trying to teach me something about sucking eggs? Or is this the sum total of your experience you wish me to take onboard?

First you say steady growth from a cautious fund, and then you imply if it don't zig-zag like crazy it ain't a real man's fund. Then I looked at the average growth over 8 years and since markets are so dangerous and slipping at the moment I decided I didn't like it. Are you telling me I should?

How much closer to retirement before it settles, please, and will someone be optimizing a switch of the funds or do I need to monitor it hourly and Do It Myself?

Thought so.

As for Cash ISA rates the average market rates since 2002 have apparently been 4.02%. 3.60%, 4.14%, 4.47%, 4.48%, 5.11%, 4.30%, 0.56%.

PS As I believe these include the diabolically awful "dropped off a cliff when least expecting it rates" viz 0.56% for 2009, then I think I was right in saying I could have done better than 5% average over 8 years with a bit of DIY cash ISA work, even if I had left some of it in less than the best accounts from time to time. (And potentially instant tax free access on all of it too!). Perhaps a died-in-the-wool cash ISA fanatic might like to comment.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You would have been happy to chase the best ISA rates year on year with all the hassle of finding a new provider and transferring across, but in the last 8 years you haven't considered moving your pension fund? Is that really a fair comparison here? Moving to a better cautious managed fund could easily have netted you 7% pa or more, moving to a range of investments which included some higher risk stuff could have had you in double digit returns.

At the end of the day, a modern pension is invested in what you want it to be invested in. Pretty much anything you can invest into outside a pension can now be invested into within a pension in a more tax efficient environment, with the exception of residential property. You can have cash accounts within a pension, you can invest in direct equities, you can buy gilts, ETFs, investment trusts, etc. The flexibility is there to do pretty much whatever you want with your pension investments, so there's no reason at all to badmouth all modern pensions simply because you are in an extremely old and inflexible plan which you haven't transferred out of for some reason

peterbaker

Aegis wrote: »

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

You don't.

You would have been happy to chase the best ISA rates year on year with all the hassle of finding a new provider and transferring across, but in the last 8 years you haven't considered moving your pension fund? Is that really a fair comparison here? Moving to a better cautious managed fund could easily have netted you 7% pa or more, moving to a range of investments which included some higher risk stuff could have had you in double digit returns.

Yeah right. I pay my pension provider to manage my pension and bark myself??

At the end of the day, a modern pension is invested in what you want it to be invested in. Pretty much anything you can invest into outside a pension can now be invested into within a pension in a more tax efficient environment, with the exception of residential property. You can have cash accounts within a pension, you can invest in direct equities, you can buy gilts, ETFs, investment trusts, etc. The flexibility is there to do pretty much whatever you want with your pension investments, so there's no reason at all to badmouth all modern pensions simply because you are in an extremely old and inflexible plan which you haven't transferred out of for some reason

The reason is I was promised aomeone was managing it not stealing it. Meanwhile I was working.

I am badmouthing the whole industry in case you hadn't noticed, and with ample good reason, thanks :mad: