Leaving Joint Tenancy?

Drea

Hey,

Just hoping for some advice. My friend and I are both listed on a Short Assured Tenancy from 1st February for 6 months. Our tenancy is up on 1st August when I am hoping to move out (depending on job offer, hoping they will let me know within next few days to be able to get my notice in to leave the flat). However my flatmate would like to stay on for another month after which he is going travelling. Problem is he hasn't really got the spare money to pay the full rent and I certainly won't have the money to pay it for an extra month as I'll be finding somewhere else to stay.

What happens in this case? I know that there is probably not much chance the LL will accept half the rent as we don't have separate tenancy agreements. Will I still be liable after I move out? Would the LL be able to take my notice and end the tenancy completely? We're just not really sure how it works.

Any ideas?

BitterAndTwisted

Strictly you don't have to give notice on a six-month AST although it is certainly good manners to do so.

If one of you gives notice then that would bind both of you and in your circumstances I would most certainly do this. This is because once an AST expires and you stay one day past the expiry date you will automatically go onto what is known as a rolling periodic tenancy where all of the terms and conditions apply bar the notice the landlord has to give you. This includes the "jointly and severally clause" which binds you both to paying the rent in full. So, by your flatmate staying on in the property you will both be responsible for the rent in full.

it's possible that your landlord might be amenable to your flatmate staying on after the end of the AST but that is for your flatmate to negotiate once you have given the LL notice that you will be moving out at the end of July. If said flatmate is going travelling, I think it's fair to assume that they've got funds to go away with, so they should be able to find the extra month's rent and pay it in full on their own.

Don't risk being liable for their rent after the end of the AST and get your notice in to the landlord, IN WRITING. Not text message, not email but IN WRITING!

Drea

So me leaving makes the full tenancy void? I don't want to leave him in the lurch with nowhere to go but I can't afford to pay the extra month for him.

Thanks for replying.

C.Lightowler

if the 6 month tenancy is up when you move out then you are no longer liable. if your flatmate wants to stay on then is that not another tenancy (or rolling contract) he is taking on on his own?

Incidentally, my flatmate has just this week completely screwed me over with our flat.

She moved in in October after i kicked my ex out and signed a contract with me until september. she has just lost her job and so has moved back to b'ham to live with her parents and take on another, better paid i might add, job.

However, she gave me 2 weeks notice she was going and is refusing to pay half the rent.

She says she cant afford it (she is paying no rent or bills and is being paid more) and said it 'isnt her problem' if i lose my home. I have lived here for a couple of years and dont see why i should suffer financially because she can't hold down a job.

people have told me that the landlord would never chase her for her half as it is a joint tenancy and he would only chase me as i am still in the flat.

Do i have a case to take her to small claims?

She was supposedly a friend (been close to her for 5 years) so is it just morally wrong and should i just pay the rent myself?

BitterAndTwisted

Drea wrote: »

So me leaving makes the full tenancy void? I don't want to leave him in the lurch with nowhere to go but I can't afford to pay the extra month for him.

Thanks for replying.

No, not just your leaving but your having given notice IN WRITING. By the way, if your tenancy agreement commenced on the 1st of Feb the last day of your AST is the 31st of July, so you need to have vacated and returned the keys on or before the 31st. Staying just one day past the 31st will bind you both for another month's rent.

Speak to your flatmate and impress upon them that you will be giving notice to your landlord once your future plans are clear. Flatmate will either have to negotiate with the landlord for an additional month at whatever rent they agree on or will have to make alternative arrangements.

Drea

C.Lightowler wrote: »

if the 6 month tenancy is up when you move out then you are no longer liable. if your flatmate wants to stay on then is that not another tenancy (or rolling contract) he is taking on on his own?

Incidentally, my flatmate has just this week completely screwed me over with our flat.

She moved in in October after i kicked my ex out and signed a contract with me until september. she has just lost her job and so has moved back to b'ham to live with her parents and take on another, better paid i might add, job.

However, she gave me 2 weeks notice she was going and is refusing to pay half the rent.

She says she cant afford it (she is paying no rent or bills and is being paid more) and said it 'isnt her problem' if i lose my home. I have lived here for a couple of years and dont see why i should suffer financially because she can't hold down a job.

people have told me that the landlord would never chase her for her half as it is a joint tenancy and he would only chase me as i am still in the flat.

Do i have a case to take her to small claims?

She was supposedly a friend (been close to her for 5 years) so is it just morally wrong and should i just pay the rent myself?

Please can you make your own thread

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

No, not just your leaving but your having given notice IN WRITING. By the way, if your tenancy agreement commenced on the 1st of Feb the last day of your AST is the 31st of July, so you need to have vacated and returned the keys on or before the 31st. Staying just one day past the 31st will bind you both for another month's rent.

Speak to your flatmate and impress upon them that you will be giving notice to your landlord once your future plans are clear. Flatmate will either have to negotiate with the landlord for an additional month at whatever rent they agree on or will have to make alternative arrangements.

Oh I know it has to be in writing and 31st July is the last day in fact, he'll be getting it special delivery to make sure :rotfl:

I just feel bad for leaving my flatmate in that situation I guess, but it can't be helped if I get the job.

C.Lightowler

Drea wrote: »

Please can you make your own thread

Sorry! will do that now!

Jowo_2

It's correct that when one joint tenant properly ends the tenancy, it ends for all tenants and it's up to the tenant who wishes to remain to negotiate a new contract. You should impress upon them that it is up to them to sort out their accommodation plans, not you, in case they just dreamily think something will turn up and don't plan for the end of the tenancy.

However, do check with Shelter on the position of this because on the Landlordzone forum there is always an unresolved argument about whether the outgoing tenant who has served notice gets lumbered with rent liabilities when another tenant stays put. Those who say their liabilities still continue argue that the landlord has not been given full possession of the property, therefore the tenancy continues because vacant possession has not happened so it merely rolls into a periodic tenancy. Shelter offer a free expert advice to tenants and should be able to confirm the position.

Come back to the forum and let us know what they say.

Drea

Jowo wrote: »

It's correct that when one joint tenant properly ends the tenancy, it ends for all tenants and it's up to the tenant who wishes to remain to negotiate a new contract. You should impress upon them that it is up to them to sort out their accommodation plans, not you, in case they just dreamily think something will turn up and don't plan for the end of the tenancy.

However, do check with Shelter on the position of this because on the Landlordzone forum there is always an unresolved argument about whether the outgoing tenant who has served notice gets lumbered with rent liabilities when another tenant stays put. Those who say their liabilities still continue argue that the landlord has not been given full possession of the property, therefore the tenancy continues because vacant possession has not happened so it merely rolls into a periodic tenancy. Shelter offer a free expert advice to tenants and should be able to confirm the position.

Come back to the forum and let us know what they say.

Thanks, I'll try give them a call but it's awkward with being at work. Will report back

tbs624

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Strictly you don't have to give notice on a six-month AST although it is certainly good manners to do so.

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

No, not just your leaving but your having given notice IN WRITING. By the way, if your tenancy agreement commenced on the 1st of Feb the last day of your AST is the 31st of July, so you need to have vacated and returned the keys on or before the 31st. Staying just one day past the 31st will bind you both for another month's rent.......

Check Drea's location - she is in *Edinburgh* and a Scottish tenancy may be subject to the doctrine of tacit relocation. The rules on notice are different to those in Eng & Wales. Failing to give appropriate notice under an SAT which is subject to TR may lumber you with a further fixed term period, not just an extra month.

Drea - check the wording of your SAT: does it mention TR?

tbs624

Jowo wrote: »

... Those who say their liabilities still continue argue that the landlord has not been given full possession of the property, therefore the tenancy continues because vacant possession has not happened so it merely rolls into a periodic tenancy

Again - note that this tenancy is in Scotland. AFAIAA LLzone forum does not generally cover Scottish LL& T law and it's important that Shelter *Scotland* is used as the reference point