Sick Pay

ANewBeginning

A bit of a long drawn out query...

Ive been off work from a Local Authority for 5 months with extreme work stress and acute work induced anxiety.

I manage a team of 5 working for a relatively small unit, classed as an essential service, within the council. I also have a countywide remit, so am travelling to meetings all over the county on a daily basis. Previously to going off sick I was working 50-60 hours a week, as there are not enough people to do the jobs that 9they think) need doing. And it was expected too! Everything is classed as 'high priority', there is little forward planning on the part of the senior managers that run the unit. It is very command and control. Do what we say and get on with is. Coupled with which my commute is 90 mins each way. When I applied for the job I was given a loose verbal assurance by the recruiters that it would be felxible working and could work in any of our main offices. There is one 5 mins away! this has never happened. And as I have no evidence to substantiate my claim, I am stuck.

I have been in negotiations with HR and my bosses about returning to work - albeit relucantly. I have no choice. No jobs to apply for at the moment. On the advice of my doctor and CBT therapist I have asked that if I can be relocated to one of our offices closer to home, as I recognise that the organisational culture will not change, so I am trying to adapt my working conditions to minimise any further distress. They have refused. Even though this has been done for another colleague, and not even for medical grounds.

I have also been told by HR that if I go sick again within the next 12 months I will only get half pay as I have used up my entitlement. I am not planning on going sick if I can help it - but there may be a hysterectomy on the horizon.....I find out in October when I see my consultant again.

I am feeling pretty dire about going back to the same shambolic organisation that I left. The thought fills me with panic to be honest. I have been very successful in my previous high responsibility roles and have never suffered from work stress before. I have worked for same council, in different areas and always been a high achiever, since returning to work after having my kids, many years ago. My sickness record is pretty much minimal amounting to no more that a couple of days.

So I have 2 questions:

Even though the organisation caused me to become sick, can they refuse me sick pay in the future?

Also given that I have asked to be relocated on medical grounds, can they refuse?

I go back to work in 2 weeks and the thought fills me witrh dread. I will be looking for another job a soon as I can. This has been a mismanaged disaster from day one when I look back.......

thanks to anyone that can give me advise xx

Evilm

As far as I know they have no responsibility to pay more than statutory sick pay, so if you have used up the allowance given by them over and above that you have very little to work with.

Since they have moved someone else for non medical grounds you may have a point to negotiate there.

I would talk to the CAB about the situation. Good luck, I hope it sorts out.

RLH33

And people think working in the public sector is an absolute breeze!!

Regardless of the reasons why you are off sick I think they can stick to what is in your contract regarding sick pay which I assume is 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay. I think it is unreasonable of them to not even negotiate a better working environment for you so that you are able to come back to work but given what you have said about them it is hardly surprising. If they won't allow you to work closer to home are they trying to force you out? Maybe this is something you need to speak to a solicitor about.

Premier_2

ANewBeginning wrote: »

...So I have 2 questions:

Even though the organisation caused me to become sick, can they refuse me sick pay in the future?

Also given that I have asked to be relocated on medical grounds, can they refuse?...

You need to refer to your terms of employment as to what they offer you over and above SSP. There may well be such a clause that limits the amount of sick pay (over and above SSP) payable. If there isn't, they can't unilaterally decide to implement one now.

The employer has operational requirements of their business. They will consider your request, but there is no obligation on the employer to actually offer such revised terms if it doesn't suit their operational requirements.

Heliflyguy

They will pay sick pay as in your contract.

Look on the bright side some people (myself included) get 10 days full pay and thats it for 12 months after 10 days it would be 3 days no pay then statutory sick pay.

I do think your employer should reconsider your relocation.
Maybe some advice from acas or your union if your a member.

I do hope you recover and get it all worked out.

ANewBeginning

I have worked in this Local Authority since my return to work, after staying at home with my kids, some years ago. I have never come across such ruthless treatment in any other area of the organisation. This area has its own HR and Occ Health, which adheres to Council policies if they suit. Otherwise they write their own, citing operational requirements as the driver. As they operate in isolation, they are allowed to run roughshod over employees.

The turnover of staff is pretty high and 17% of staff are off with stress related illnesses. Over 75% of managers in a staff survey cited unachievable workloads, lack of leadership, direction and vision, lack of empowerment and mistrust. It's safe to say that if it had not been anonymised, no one would put their name to it because of fear of recrimination.

My sickness record previous to this has been exemplary. I had a member of staff whom I supported through a period of work stress and I was told 'If he can't do the job sack them' and an told to investigate employment law!!

You get my drift?

I have always worked with integrity and worked hard and achieved a good name. But this is beyond belief.

My contract states 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay after 5 years service. At no point does it say there is a limit to how many times you can use it. Colleagues I have told have been incredulous and inform me that they have never heard of it. Like I said I am not planning on taking sick leave, but you never know what is around the corner.

In terms of relocation - my job can be undertaken from anywhere. I am all over the place anyway so often have to hot desk elsewhere. It's command and control - they command and we are controlled. Collective mentality.

Thanks for your helpful suggestions. I will be speaking to my union to see what rights I have.

teabelly

If there are other staff off sick then I'd be thinking about a group personal injury claim and following the whistle blowing procedure on these management clowns! If you don't fancy a legal battle then a group grievance citing unacceptable working conditions, bad management etc etc. I'd also get some legal advice on whether you can continue with full pay while sick if the employer is clearly the cause and is clearly refusing reasonable adjustments. I do think seeing an employment law expert and maybe pursuing a grievance might be a good way of dealing with them. Having a working environment which is making people sick is not acceptable in this day and age. There are clear guidelines on the HSE website about how to manage stress.

Also if you return to work you also need to practice saying no. Limit your hours. If you are working over time because of their incompetence then just stop. The more people cope with idiots in charge the more those idiots carry on being idiots. Also make sure you have decisions in writing so that if anyone suffers because of their inability to organise staff properly then you want the buck stopping with them rather than you.

Being able to work from an office close to you rather than further away seems like a no brainer to me. If they are refusing such a simple request then they're doing it out of sheer obstructiveness. But this is what you expect from these types. They're brick walls and quite often will not listen to reasoned arguments on purpose just to be petty tin pot dictators.

I wouldn't expect the union to be much help. They tend to not rock the boat as much as you'd hope. Outside agents don't care if they upset their boss. Union reps do.

smartpicture

Can you choose to stick to the terms of your contract when you go back? ie you work 35hrs or whatever you're contracted to do, then you go home. You don't have to do more, it may be expected, but they can't make you. Any work that is unfinished, you email your boss every night saying this is the list of things not completed due to excessive demands on my time, please let me know tomorrow's priorities as it will impossible to complete everything. Then go home with a clear conscience because you've done all you can and the rest is someone else's responsibility. Make sure there's a paper trail though to show that you are doing everything you should be within those 35hrs.

Then look for a new job as fast as you can.

Uncertain

teabelly wrote: »

I'd also get some legal advice on whether you can continue with full pay while sick if the employer is clearly the cause and is clearly refusing reasonable adjustments.

No.

The sick pay entitlement is whatever it is. This is just the same as a physical workplace injury. If it is the employers fault you can sue for damages. Obviously if you are not being paid sick pay then your losses are higher so any award should reflect this loss of earnings.

SarEl

I am afraid you are not in a strong position here. Your sick pay is detremined by contract and according to length of service. It is what it is and it will not be altered. If you have run out of sick pay - or full sick pay - then you will get SSP or whatever your entitlement is only. I regret to say that this isn't unfair - it's life. Council workers with five years continuous service get 6 months full pay and six months half pay, which is very generous. I am the last one to knock public sector workers and there's a lot of c!!p around about their cushy jobs that hasn't been true for a long time - but on this one I'm afraid you are on a hiding to nothing because it is one of the most generous provisions around.

In terms of "reasonable adjustments" - and I use the term advisedly because I am not sure that your condition qualifies under the DDA - most employers (especially public sector ones) look at these very carefully and I am surprised that the cannot accomodate even a temporary relocatioon. But the fact that you have a 90 minute commute isn't relevant - you chose to take a job with a 90 minute commute, and this has nothing to do with them. Their only responsibility is your health and wellbeing in work. What reason have they given for refusing?

As for the hours. I commiserate. Unfortunately it isn't uncommon in the public sector. But there is an answer. It isn't always an easy one because people are loathe to do it. It's called working your contractual hours. You cannot be made to work more than this, and whilst there may be some occasional flexibility (within flexi-time / time off in lieu provision), it really is down to you to work within your contractual hours and not more.

It won't be any comfort, but lots of public sector workers are in the situation and it has or will make them ill. But I am afraid that I have to say that collectively you only have yourselves to blame. Public sector workers have taken on more and more unpaid hours to cover for cuts over many years, and sat back and taken the knocks as everyone else blames them for having cushy jobs. Because, more often than not, they believe passionately in what they are doing. As a reward for doing this and papering over the cracks that the public don't see, and haven't seen for years, you now face more cuts, a pay freeze - so it isn't going to get better. So it's up to you (individually and collectively) - the word that is generally used in the private sector when asked to do double shifts for no extra pay is "No". You are effectively doing double shifts. If you value your health you have to say no too.

Premier_2

ANewBeginning wrote: »

...You get my drift? ...

I do. It's a sh1te place to work, or at least that is how you perceive it.

Moreover it appears to have been like this for some time, and there is a lack of leadership & vision to change things around soon

Though to be fair, I think most people are aware that the cogs of a local authority are extremely slow to turn, even where there is a will.

Perhaps time to look for something else to challenge you? You are clearly not happy with the current employer/job and your health is suffering as a result. Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt and moved on. My advice to you would be to seriously consider doing likewise.