Question about claimants statement

joanne_d_3

Hi , i am hoping i could just ask a quick question ?

My husband is the claimant in an employment tribunal. The case is due to be heard quite soon and so we are attempting to put together his statement.

At the time , we kept a really detailed version of things as they happened , i.e

**/**/09 - telephone call from ex employer in which ex employer said A , B + C

**/**/09 - received a letter from ex employer saying blah blah blah

But what i am unsure about is Just how detailed do we make the statement which my husband will read out on the actual day of tribunal?

Do we go to great lengths or just mention the really important factors ?

lol , everytime the ex employer as much as sneezed during the disaplinary/dismissal/appeal stages we took a note of it ..... just dont know if it should all be included...may take a while to read that out during the hearing lol

Hopefully someone could give me a few pointers?

Thanks

SarEl

joanne_d wrote: »

But what i am unsure about is Just how detailed do we make the statement which my husband will read out on the actual day of tribunal?

Do we go to great lengths or just mention the really important factors ?

lol , everytime the ex employer as much as sneezed during the disaplinary/dismissal/appeal stages we took a note of it ..... just dont know if it should all be included...may take a while to read that out during the hearing lol

Excellent. I wish more people did this! You must include everything in detail if it pertains to your claim and you wish it in evidence. The rule of thumb is don't include anything which clearly has nothing to do with anything (so "The boss mentioned it was a nice day" probably hasn't any relevance), but if you might ever want it consdiered as part of the case it should be included. As the claimant (and representing yourself) the judges will allow you some lattitude because you don't do this for a living! That means that they will work very hard not to look bored if you ramble on at length about something that only needs a sentence (they tend to get curt with us lawyers if we do that ); they will explain anything you don't understand, and will ask questions to draw out any points that aren't clear. Err on the side of too much rather than too little because the judges will be able to make better sense out of that. If your husband rattles on it will not impact on the outcome of the case - missing smething crucial out will!

Edit
I should add - you do not need to go into detail about things which are otherwise in evidence. So you don't need to give a blow by blow account of a meeting if the notes of that meeting are in evidence (and you agree with them - or you have already objected to them and that objection is in wtriting). Just refer to the relevant documentation "I went to a meeting on the notes on page XX of the bundle are an accurate record of the meeting" - or whatever.

viktory

joanne_d wrote: »

Hi , i am hoping i could just ask a quick question ?

My husband is the claimant in an employment tribunal. The case is due to be heard quite soon and so we are attempting to put together his statement.

At the time , we kept a really detailed version of things as they happened , i.e

**/**/09 - telephone call from ex employer in which ex employer said A , B + C

**/**/09 - received a letter from ex employer saying blah blah blah

But what i am unsure about is Just how detailed do we make the statement which my husband will read out on the actual day of tribunal?

Do we go to great lengths or just mention the really important factors ?

lol , everytime the ex employer as much as sneezed during the disaplinary/dismissal/appeal stages we took a note of it ..... just dont know if it should all be included...may take a while to read that out during the hearing lol

Hopefully someone could give me a few pointers?

Thanks

Makes me feel better - we have compete transcripts of my husbands disciplinary hearing, I typed it up and it run to 32 pages - the employers version of the same meeting was six pages long!

joanne_d_3

Thank you both ever so much for taking the time to reply . I have read through some of the threads in the employment section and you two posters always give advice which is spot on lol i was actually hoping you would see my post !

Im hoping Lazy Daisy drops by as well lol..

Any advice on how the preparation of the joint bundle happens ?

Do we work WITH the respondents solicitor to come to the agreement of a joint bundle (she has told the tribunal that SHE will take responsibility for preparing them) or will she make her bundle up and then send a copy to us so that we can add whatever docs we need to ?
Thanks again

joanne_d_3

viktory wrote: »

Makes me feel better - we have compete transcripts of my husbands disciplinary hearing, I typed it up and it run to 32 pages - the employers version of the same meeting was six pages long!

Viktory , whats your situation ? Have you or you oh been through a tribuanl already or going through one now ?

viktory

joanne_d wrote: »

Viktory , whats your situation ? Have you or you oh been through a tribuanl already or going through one now ?

Briefly, my husband and a colleague have been suspended on full pay as an allegation of bullying and harassment has been levelled against them. The situation has been going on for six weeks now and is finally coming to a head. My husband has had one investigation meeting and one disciplinary hearing. He recorded both openly and with his employers full consent. The company have interviewed the person making the allegation no less than six times and all the witnesses have been interviewed more than once, some three times.

When you break down the 'evidence' there is only one witness and his statement changes every single time he is interviewed. The rest of the allegations are not witnessed and not substantiated.

Added to this is the fact that a further disciplinary against my husband went on for five months and was dropped with no action on the day he was suspended for this allegation, plus the fact that he also lodged a grievance of bullying and harassment that was pretty much ignored (the differences between the way his grievance was handled and this one is being handled are astonishing) all points to an attempt to get him out.

Anyway, my husbands colleague has spoken with am employment law solicitor who states that their case is pretty much non existent.

We will be handing over our final documents before the decision is made this week. I have prepared a six page document refuting their evidence, a covering letter and the 32 page transcript of the disciplinary meeting. We fully expect them to sack my husband and his colleague and so will be appealing and then going down the tribunal route. We will also be defending ourselves - so I am thinking of making SarEl my new best friend!!!

Have you spoken to a solicitor? Sometimes it is worth paying a few quid, just to get a professional to give advice. That's what I intend doing if it goes to tribunal but will do all the 'donkey work' ie typing stuff and preparing bundles of evidence myself.

SarEl

joanne_d wrote: »

Thank you both ever so much for taking the time to reply . I have read through some of the threads in the employment section and you two posters always give advice which is spot on lol i was actually hoping you would see my post !

Im hoping Lazy Daisy drops by as well lol.

I just wish i could post our situation on this board , simply just to get some advice on the strength of our case.....we think its strong but as it gets nearer the actual hearing i think its usual to have doubts.

Any advice on how the preparation of the joint bundle happens ?

Do we work WITH the respondents solicitor to come to the agreement of a joint bundle (she has told the tribunal that SHE will take responsibility for preparing them) or will she make her bundle up and then send a copy to us so that we can add whatever docs we need to ?

Sorry to ask such a daft question but being unrepresented we dont know these things and the respondents soilictor doesnt answer ANY correspondence from us regardless of WHAT it concerns.

Thanks again

This isn't a daft question at all. As a rule the employers solicitor will gather all the evidence together, create the bundle and make sufficient copies of it for everyone, providing you with your own bundle, and this sounds like what is going to happen. That means that you all have the same documents in the same order on the same pages - saves a lot of time! If you are at all in doubt about anything to do with the process, speak to the truibunal office - they are really helpful to self-representers (well everyone really!) and if there is any difficulty the will ease the process.

joanne_d_3

SarEl wrote: »

This isn't a daft question at all. As a rule the employers solicitor will gather all the evidence together, create the bundle and make sufficient copies of it for everyone, providing you with your own bundle, and this sounds like what is going to happen. That means that you all have the same documents in the same order on the same pages - saves a lot of time! If you are at all in doubt about anything to do with the process, speak to the truibunal office - they are really helpful to self-representers (well everyone really!) and if there is any difficulty the will ease the process.

Thanks for that , it was really helpful.

SarEl

Not a solicitor! A barrister! But this isn't altogether unheard of although the majority would be far more professional. In general the tribunals offices do not have much power over such shenanigans unless the offender really takes the p!!s - but they do take note often, and it doesn't serve your case well to annoy the judges.

The tribunal should have set you a date for the exchange of documents (often referred to as the exchange of bundles). This includes everything, including all the witness statements from each side. If the employers solicitor is preparing the bundles you should have ensured that they have all the documents you want including by an agreed date before then (technically, the solicitor should then get the agreed bundle back to you by the "exchange date" although this doesn't always happen in practice, and the two dates may be the same).

If you cannot clarify this with the solicitor directly, then you should go through the tribunal office or the ACAS case officer - and if you aren't sure about relevant dates then you must get these from the tribunal office.

Make sure (and I am sure you have) you keep all your communications with the solicitor to show that you have tried to resolve these issues, just in case it goes pear shaped and they try to claim you didn't comply. But I wouldn't worry inordinately about this. It is frustrating and stressful, but no solicitor with an ounce of common sense is going to annoy a judge. Judges tend to have a way of getting them back.

SarEl

viktory wrote: »

Anyway, my husbands colleague has spoken with am employment law solicitor who states that their case is pretty much non existent.

I am not sure what this sentence means. Whose case is non-existent? If it is the employers, it is a pretty bald statement - in relation to cases of this sort (bullying) they can very easily go pear-shaped. Without knowing the full details (and I am very interested in the ptrevious disciplinary too!) it's hard to say with any accuracy, but I would never assume, even on seeing the actual paperwork, that such a case is an easy win. It's worth remembering (and if you didn't see an employment specialist, solicitors tend to forget) that the rules of evidence for a dismissal are not those of other parts of the law. The employer only has to evidence that there is "reasonable belief" that smeone has done something, and that if dismissal is the outcome that it is "proportional" to the circumstances.

That said, he has not yet been dismissed and don't assume he will be (unless there is more to this than you have said). In cases of bullying and harassment it is the norm (and legally advisable) to suspend the alleged bully unless an employer can be certain that they can manage the potential risk in the workplace. The risk being, of course, and an aggressor may intimidate or influence either the complainant or other people. If they do not do so, then further incidents (or allegations of them) may be made and the employer can become legally liable for any harm caused. Employers tend therefore to be very very careful.

I am fine for best friends , but I will try to post if you need any help. Currently I am fortunately not in court as I had a big commitment postponed due to the judge being ill, so I am around a bit. But if in court, I am often very tied up for many hours and days. So kick the post up the list and I will find it!

Edit
By the way, I am also very interested in the fact that the employer allowed you to tape the meeting (I believe you said they gave permission?) - which is far from common. But it says something. Exactly what that is I can't be certain. One possibility is that they are supremely confident of their case. Another is that they do not believe the allegations and therefore aren't worried about it ever seeing the light of day! So it could be very good news - or not!

joanne_d_3

SarEl wrote: »

Not a solicitor! A barrister! But this isn't altogether unheard of although the majority would be far more professional. In general the tribunals offices do not have much power over such shenanigans unless the offender really takes the p!!s - but they do take note often, and it doesn't serve your case well to annoy the judges.

The tribunal should have set you a date for the exchange of documents (often referred to as the exchange of bundles). This includes everything, including all the witness statements from each side. If the employers solicitor is preparing the bundles you should have ensured that they have all the documents you want including by an agreed date before then (technically, the solicitor should then get the agreed bundle back to you by the "exchange date" although this doesn't always happen in practice, and the two dates may be the same).

If you cannot clarify this with the solicitor directly, then you should go through the tribunal office or the ACAS case officer - and if you aren't sure about relevant dates then you must get these from the tribunal office.

Make sure (and I am sure you have) you keep all your communications with the solicitor to show that you have tried to resolve these issues, just in case it goes pear shaped and they try to claim you didn't comply. But I wouldn't worry inordinately about this. It is frustrating and stressful, but no solicitor with an ounce of common sense is going to annoy a judge. Judges tend to have a way of getting them back.

Ok....now im even more confused lol.

At the cmd the judge ordered that the completed bundles had to be at the tribunal office by 6th Aug which is the week before the actual hearing. At no point has anyone ever mentioned the date upon which i have to have the documents i want included in the bundle sent to the respondents solicitor?

Another stupid (sorry) question is do i just send all the documents i want included TO THE SOLICITOR in any random order ? If i do this this then how does she know where to place them in the bundle etc ?

Also , the solicitor already has all of the documents from me.....i sent them to her as part of the discovery process way back in Feb , do i have to send them again or do i just tell her which ones i want her to include ?

Confused.......